Lennart's Look At Systemd This Year, What's Going To Happen In 2017

[interested]

Indeed, however the major anti systemd crowd seams to have decreased by a large margin in the last year, they are now mostly concentrated to Slashdot where they all are Anonymous Cowards how for some reason always manage millions of servers and that systemd have forced them to switch to one of the BSDs.

Slashdot really has become the home for old burnout techno-retards that basically hates all new technology.

Davide Cavalca's talk "Deploying systemd at scale" is interesting in that regard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhYd0S3qiMY
He is the engineer behind Facebook's vast amount servers and in the talk he mentioned how a lot of the FB engineers were skeptical if not downright hostile to systemd (because of the FUD), but once they got an introduction to it they realized it was cool technology that could do a lot interesting things.

So more people are getting to know systemd from its actually tech docs, rather than on relying on some FUD from a loony blog, and therefore realize that systemd is good stuff.

Since the non-systemd crowd basically gave up years ago with making something that could compete with systemd, or even maintain their own software stack (*coughConsoleKitcough*) they are naturally dying out as a eco-system. I also think many BSD'ers gave up trolling Linux forums against systemd when Jordan Hubbard from FreeBSD said that systemd was good, and FreeBSD should have something similar.

[caligula]

Indeed, however the major anti systemd crowd seams to have decreased by a large margin in the last year, they are now mostly concentrated to Slashdot where they all are Anonymous Cowards how for some reason always manage millions of servers and that systemd have forced them to switch to one of the BSDs.

https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet

[caligula]

Indeed, however the major anti systemd crowd seams to have decreased by a large margin in the last year, they are now mostly concentrated to Slashdot where they all are Anonymous Cowards how for some reason always manage millions of servers and that systemd have forced them to switch to one of the BSDs.

I think many users agree that something like systemd is really useful, but it still has lots of issues with robustness. For instance the article I posted in message above has lots of links to bugs. Another issue is, systemd requires quite a bit of system resources. It won't work on low end routers and embedded systems. Not everyone has routers with Kaby lake 7800K, 64 GB of RAM and 6x8TB RAID6 btrfs arrays. It's simply too bloated for that stuff. Also it won't work out of the box with alternative libc systems.

[computerquip]

I think many users agree that something like systemd is really useful, but it still has lots of issues with robustness. For instance the article I posted in message above has lots of links to bugs. Another issue is, systemd requires quite a bit of system resources. It won't work on low end routers and embedded systems. Not everyone has routers with Kaby lake 7800K, 64 GB of RAM and 6x8TB RAID6 btrfs arrays. It's simply too bloated for that stuff. Also it won't work out of the box with alternative libc systems.

https://medium.com/@davidtstrauss/how-to-throw-a-tantrum-in-one-blog-post-c2ccaa58661d#.j7lyag9nf

[computerquip]

In addition, shame on Phoronix for spreading the literal FUD. I will not be donating again. I've had enough with these ridiculous articles that make it hard to advertise Linux in general. I can't in good faith support a site that gives the free community a horrible image while feeding into misinformation of our already agitated community.

Nothing like misinformation, click bait titles, and ad revenue at the sake of the ignorant and agitated community, am I right Michael? It's everyone else that has to clean up after you support these shit blog posts as factual just because you can't take a few minutes out of your day to do research. It's pathetic this site has any actual presence and the fact that you're held responsible in providing correct information is just insane to me. I don't know how many times you've failed on this point but you make Fox news seem like saints.

[caligula]

https://medium.com/@davidtstrauss/ho...61d#.j7lyag9nf

Listen, I just watched several systemd talks before posting that. I read the David's response and he really didn't comment on the complaints made by Felker, which that tantrum guy referred to. Yes, the daemon can be restarted and that claim was erroneous but he merely touched the other issues by saying that the post is riddled with errors. David also admitted that he had few valid points (among the stupid complaints). When he asked about alternatives, Glenn Strauss also gave some examples of programs that did similar things as systemd long before (see the last comment https://medium.com/@glenn.strauss/th...es---------10- ). However this David guy made a new blog post and again wondered the same thing. Does it make any sense to comment his text if he doesn't read the comments. Lennart's new slides claim that systemd also targets embedded. So, how on earth would they do that. I wrote another post here https://www.phoronix.com/forums/foru...960#post901960 which touches that issue and explains why systemd isn't compatible with a large set of embedded hardware. How will they address that?

[interested]

I think many users agree that something like systemd is really useful, but it still has lots of issues with robustness.

I really don't think systemd has problems with robustness, consider fx that almost all Facebooks gazillion servers are running systemd. I am sure that if there where many reports about systemd crashing, its detractors would gleefully link to them at all opportunity. But the fact is, that despite all the doomish predictions about systemd, it runs extremely stably without crashing, and its security record is excellent with very few CVE's. and almost none of them really bad. This is despite many people are auditing the systemd code-base.

For instance the article I posted in message above has lots of links to bugs.

No it hasn't. If you look again you will see he carefully avoid to link to any existing problems, instead he links to some random git-messages, claiming that they don't look good, despite the fact he has no knowledge about the code base. In short, just FUD with zero technical argumentation.

Another issue is, systemd requires quite a bit of system resources. It won't work on low end routers and embedded systems. Not everyone has routers with Kaby lake 7800K, 64 GB of RAM and 6x8TB RAID6 btrfs arrays. It's simply too bloated for that stuff. Also it won't work out of the box with alternative libc systems.

No, systemd doesn't require a lot of resources. In most situations systemd will in fact deliver more functionality per kilobyte disk storage than any existing alternative. You can easily strip systemd down to below 4 megabyte disk space while still having seccomp, process supervising, Namespaces, dependency checking, socket-activation, watch-dogs etc.

Watch this youtube presentation by an embedded developer if you want to know why systemd is good for embedded, and why existing alternatives like Busybox aren't as good:

https://youtu.be/qDC9mHfsC-I

tl/dw: systemd can be made very small and it delivers useful features out of the box, while Busybox focus on its disk size, forcing the user to make almost all features with shell-scripts etc.

[timtas]

Indeed, however the major anti systemd crowd seams to have decreased by a large margin in the last year, they are now mostly concentrated to Slashdot where they all are Anonymous Cowards how for some reason always manage millions of servers and that systemd have forced them to switch to one of the BSDs.

Or they just got fed up being shouted down and called ignorant, bearded dinosaurs who are too lazy and stupid to learn new things whenever they voiced the slightest disagreement about any systemd characteristics. It's always a sad moment for the bullies when their victims moved on.

[starshipeleven]

No, systemd doesn't require a lot of resources. In most situations systemd will in fact deliver more functionality per kilobyte disk storage than any existing alternative. You can easily strip systemd down to below 4 megabyte disk space while still having seccomp, process supervising, Namespaces, dependency checking, socket-activation, watch-dogs etc.

Watch this youtube presentation by an embedded developer if you want to know why systemd is good for embedded, and why existing alternatives like Busybox aren't as good:

https://youtu.be/qDC9mHfsC-I

tl/dw: systemd can be made very small and it delivers useful features out of the box, while Busybox focus on its disk size, forcing the user to make almost all features with shell-scripts etc.

Michael make an article about this plz. It's pretty cool stuff.

[rtfazeberdee]

Or they just got fed up being shouted down and called ignorant, bearded dinosaurs who are too lazy and stupid to learn new things whenever they voiced the slightest disagreement about any systemd characteristics. It's always a sad moment for the bullies when their victims moved on.

Or maybe they did some reading and cured their ignorance and found the sky wasn't falling.