The State Of Systemd In Debian (2016)

[unixfan2001]

I just love it when someone on a message board tells me to quit complaining and fill out a bug report. Unfortunately you have to fill out one of my forms to request I fill out one of your form, and that just isn't happening. Oh well... free as in... er, um... I forget.

I have no clue what the heck you're talking about.
Is it too hard to sign up for Github and report the issue there?

Another guy that didn't understand what GPL is all about. It's not about user freedom, but about source code freedom.
Freeloaders never get any say, it's ok.

Huh? That's news to me.
AFAIK, the GPL has always been about user freedom at the expense of developer freedom.

Not that the above complaint would've anything to do with either.

People being too lazy or incompetent to post bug reports aren't exactly a licensing issue. I met them on every piece of software I've ever been working on. Whether that be OSS, FOSS or proprietary (yes. Even people who got paid for testing the freaking software failed to file proper bug reports).

[unixfan2001]

systemd might be ok for your slowass ARM stuff, but it's a huge pain in the ass and a time waster when you are dealing with servers. It's got a long way to go and as far as I'm concerned has no business being on production systems. I work at a large datacenter and it causes a lot of problems that you would not see otherwise.

I lost count of how many times I've seen it throw a system on boot into emergency shell, randomly and for no good reason, and how many times networking shit randomly stopped working. 99% of servers don't care much about the faster boot time as they only get rebooted for kernel patches. We don't have many customers requesting Debian but I've seen a few completely hose their server leaving it unbootable messing with systemd. systemd seems to work a little better on CentOS 7 than debian with what I've seen personally...

All I will say is I'm thrilled that FreeBSD will never use systemd, I'm running FreeBSD on as much shit as I can these days just to stay the fuck away from that garbage.
The funny part? FreeBSD boots faster than debian with systemd on the same hardware. Ever notice who employs the main systemd developer?

Red Hat. What's their primary source of revenue? Support. Is it strange that systemd has been out for quite a while now and it's still full of stupid issues? I think it's on purpose if you ask me. Just for comparison out of all the CentOS 6.x machines we have, you NEVER see any issues related to init. CentOS 7.x and Debian 8.x, countless, enough that we avoid it as much as possible.

It's mind blowing so many of you think it's great but I'm willing to bet most don't use it in production environment (desktop's DON'T count)

No offense, but it appears you suck at your job.
Being that opinionated and, quite obviously, not very competent, I wouldn't want to trust you with my infrastructure.

1. Speed wasn't the reason systemd was born.
2. It's not a time waster. It's considerably faster than the "old way", once you're willing to learn something new.
3. It's consistently more sane than the bash shell crap that was reminiscent of the way Windows 9x did things.

[arokh]

@darkfires

"I lost count of how many times I've seen it throw a system on boot into emergency shell, randomly and for no good reason" <- Is this a joke?

Please, could you enlighten us on how you came to the conclusion that systemd was the cause of this? I agree with the above poster, you sound completely incompetent. Been using systemd for years, 0 issues on either desktops or servers here.

[starshipeleven]

I'm a huge pain in the ass and a time waster when I am dealing with servers. I've got a long way to go and as far as I'm concerned I have no business working on production systems. I work at a large datacenter and I cause a lot of problems that you would not see otherwise.

fixed.

I mean, seriously. Learn how to use it first, then you will understand why what you said is wrong.

[trek]

Actually this guy tells right things. Systemd heading right direction and damn [...]
On side note, when it comes to minimal systems and Debian, has someone managed to get rid of perl in minimal systems without really odd package manager hacks?

It's always the same: a package become so popular and the expectations for its future are so great that it is marked as absolutely required by the community

then the expectations are not met and the people get focused on some other stuff, but the effects remains for long long time

[trek]

We don't have many customers requesting Debian but I've seen a few completely hose their server leaving it unbootable messing with systemd.

have you proposed to your customers to install the sysvinit-core package instead of systemd? It runs perfectly, like any older debian

[Luke_Wolf]

Another guy that didn't understand what GPL is all about. It's not about user freedom, but about source code freedom.
Freeloaders never get any say, it's ok.

You've clearly never listened to what Stallman has to say at all. Free Software is all about User Freedom to do whatever they want on any computer they want, even if it's not their own, at full root privileges (see the bottom of this: http://web.archive.org/web/201502150...nvocation.html ) . Free Software is not however about a User's choice to run any software they want (proprietary software is banned and Open Source Software is seen as a lesser evil and something to fear monger about if it happens to replace Free Software ( https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html ). I very highly recommend people actually go through and read the various speeches and such RMS has done, and in particular this one http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallman-kth.html

Now Open Source on the other hand... That's the one that is based around developing the best software possible by using an open and collaborative development model.

[starshipeleven]

Free Software is all about User Freedom to do whatever they want on any computer they want, even if it's not their own, at full root privileges (see the bottom of this: http://web.archive.org/web/201502150...nvocation.html )

VERY out of context, you should be ashamed of the dirty tricks you pull to further your cause.

He is talking of a mainframe system, run in a place where the rules stated that all should have equal access to it as it is the only friggin computer in the facility, and some jerks did a bad trick to cut off others.

Since my PC is a PERSONAL computer and not a shared mainframe, the above does not apply. Private property != shared/public property.

Free Software is not however about a User's choice to run any software they want

This. My point precisely. Exactly what I said myself above and the only really useful part of your post.

(proprietary software is banned and Open Source Software is seen as a lesser evil and something to fear monger about if it happens to replace Free Software ( https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html ).

My same vision of the matter.

Now Open Source on the other hand... That's the one that is based around developing the best software possible by using an open and collaborative development model.

Yes, but leaves open the door to anyone that can turn it closed-source, it is vulnerable to becoming what it is supposed to prevent.

[pal666]

Feels like we're being used as beta testers without our permission or desire

feels like there is 10 year old debian waiting for you

[pal666]

AFAIK, the GPL has always been about user freedom at the expense of developer freedom.

user freedom has nothing to do with source code availability