Originally posted by cjcox
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I've never heard of or used puppet. I don't know or understand how it works as a result. What I can take from simple logic... is that it is indeed the software called puppet's fault here. I can claim this because there is other software that integrates well with systemd without explicit support from systemd. In particular, a lot of previous service management layers used in whatever distro were made to work with systemd to help with moving over.
Now, let's say systemd completely fucked puppet up. puppet couldn't keep up with the transition, it's a pile of heaping dog crap now that doesn't work well, there wasn't enough time/money to maintain the service manager, whatever... but it worked fine with the old SysV. I understand that changes, especially to something so close to the core of any server administrators toolchain, can have drastic effects. There was *bound* to be someone who was negatively affected by it. This logic, however, is why I'm stuck with Netscape 5.1 email clients and Windows 98 on my work computers. Change needed to or needs to happen. I'm not saying it should happen all the time, quite the contrary since important changes can cost people a lot of money and time that may not seem that worth it. SysV has been around for a long time though and its flaws have been pointed out continuously. There was plenty of warning, systemd didn't just come from nowhere. What can systemd do, from both the software and developer perspective, to help alleviate those transitional pains?
While your complaint might be valid, your (and many others here on this forum) solution is to just have systemd not exist. You give no constructive feedback other than saying the old solution was fine while hundreds of people are giving quite logical reasoning as to why it wasn't fine and why the new system is better on various fronts. Simply giving a comparison on what SysV did compared to what systemd other than something silly like, "It worked" would be a hundred times more useful than any post on this forum thread currently.
PS. A full system lockup is likely not caused by something like systemd or SysV for that matter. A lockup is more than likely a driver issue that causes a lockup that can't even reach the panic function. I've seen these various times while messing with my input driver and virtually anything can cause it from kernel space... corrupt heap/stack, null dereference, overflow/underflow... it's kinda hard to understand the circumstances of which the lockup was caused by and I find the best way is via a virtual serial IO port if you're running via a VM which can at the least give you partial output of a panic message (often cut off before the end).
If systemd was the cause, you'd see it quite clearly in the log. The kernel wouldn't lockup because of systemd, it doesn't run in kernel space, it's almost impossible. Not saying that various other symptoms couldn't occur... just that a lockup wouldn't be one of them in a general scenario.
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