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OwnCloud 8.1 Focuses On Greater Performance & Scalability

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  • OwnCloud 8.1 Focuses On Greater Performance & Scalability

    Phoronix: OwnCloud 8.1 Focuses On Greater Performance & Scalability

    OwnCloud, the AGPLv3-licensed cloud software similar to Dropbox, has made it up to version 8.1...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...d-8.1-Released

  • #2
    I wish OwnCloud was not just opencore. The best stuff (like backend object storage support) is only in the commercial version. That makes this worthless.
    Too many open source projects could be far more successful if they just open sourced everything.
    Same goes for the competition, SeaFile.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by SyXbiT View Post
      I wish OwnCloud was not just opencore. The best stuff (like backend object storage support) is only in the commercial version. That makes this worthless.
      Too many open source projects could be far more successful if they just open sourced everything.
      The open source version is designed for the average hobbyist or small organisation, where features like the object store are completely unnecessary. Bigger organisations that run ownCloud on a cluster of servers, or need ultra-high performance and reliability, they need an object store, so ownCloud Inc puts that in the proprietary version and can fund the whole project.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Xenopathic View Post

        The open source version is designed for the average hobbyist or small organisation, where features like the object store are completely unnecessary.
        What you've said doesn't make any sense. I would like to use OwnCloud for personal use, and would like the 'proprietary' features. Since it would just be a hobby, I'm absolutely not willing to pay for the enterprise version. I'm certain I'm not alone.
        The tried and true, successful way to do open source is the Red Hat way. The full version is open source, and you charge for support. Why must so many companies resist this? It's a much better way to do business. Everyone gets the full version, bug fixes happen in the open for the only version, and businesses can still pay for support.
        Last edited by SyXbiT; 07-07-2015, 12:30 PM.

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        • #5
          Let me add:
          A bunch of videos can be found on https://owncloud.org/features

          Perhaps also cool: ownCloud is working with CERN to test ownCloud with an automated testing tool called, for sure, Smashbox: https://owncloud.org/blog/owncloud-cern-smashbox/ https://owncloud.org/blog/smashbox-in-action/


          Now about the 'open core' comment.
          First, I'd love to hear what enterprise features you need as personal home user and for what. Note that the object store is actually not enterprise only, the open source version does that just fine. In general, I think calling ownCloud crippled open core is really over the top, but - prove me wrong. Give me some usecases which would be relevant for, say, my parents who run ownCloud on a Banana Pi.

          You mention Red Hat. Yes, the OS/Platform business seems the one where the pure open source, just support is paid- business works best. I mean, outside of consulting, but that's not remotely comparable of course. Let me help you and add that besides Red Hat, there is SUSE, not doing so horribly. Unfortunately, there has been another dozen companies trying this, which went bankrupt. Today there's still one trying everything and the kitchen sink to not follow the others in bankrupcy and some 1-5 employee endeavours trying various stuff.

          And that's the most successful example space: operating systems. Give me 5 examples of successful, 100+ employee companies building an open source product outside of the OS space with big, active, healthy communities (we have), open governance (we have) and an entirely support based business model. Ok, give me three examples.

          Just one then?

          Yeah, I don't know any either. Maybe you do, that would be nice as I personally am interested to see how that works out and perhaps we can learn. Because we'd love to, but right now - only about 1/3rd of our sales is for support. You can calculate how many ppl we'd have to fire if we were to try and build only on that.

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          • #6
            duplicate post
            Last edited by SyXbiT; 07-07-2015, 05:06 PM. Reason: phoronix forum bug lost this post, only to have it show up later.

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            • #7
              actually, many of the hugely successful truly open source projects that you want some examples of have been purchased.
              MySQL
              JBoss
              Ceph
              Gluster
              etc..


              But there are other really successful companies like
              Zabbix
              Docker
              MariaDB
              Percona
              Mozilla
              Untangle
              pfSense


              And products inside Red Hat that are open source and are profitable
              KVM
              Openshift


              Anyway, an important factor to consider is that engineers want the full version for free for their personal projects, and many companies will require support. I am such an engineer. More than a dozen times, I've used open source software for a hobby project, such as Gluster, MariaDB, Untangle, pfSense, Zabbix etc.., Then I've taken it to a company either as an employee or consultant, and they've purchased support.
              If your business model works for you, great. I just think history has proven that truly open source creates a much healthier community.
              My previous company was actually looking in to an OwnCloud like product. I had previously installed and uninstalled OwnCloud because I couldn't use it with S3. Had the full version been free, I would have been experienced with it, and might have recommended it.

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              • #8
                You claimed that open core is not needed (I assume you mean "to run ownCloud as a successful business"), ignoring that I said 1/3rd of our customers is interested in support. Let's assume for a moment that I'm flat out lying, why wouldn't I?

                So I asked for examples of companies which are similar to ownCloud. Let's be a bit more specific about that.
                * make a end user product with a copyleft license.
                * only make money on support - not on consulting, licensing and proprietary extensions, including ads or otherwise being paid for choices they make (like Mozilla!)
                * and are of at least comparable size to ownCloud, 80-100 employees or bigger
                * and not developed by, say, a consortium or charitable organization or something
                * Bonus if it is actually community-developed, like ownCloud

                Note that I mentioned that Red Hat is a less than ideal example for several reasons, and let me be more specific again:
                * they are the only one out of MANY who tried which managed to get the market majority (70-80% of the market depending on who you ask)
                * they mostly package stuff from others (though they contribute a lot)
                * and they sell a platform, not an end user product. ownCloud is something you can integrate with greatly, build upon a little, but in the end it is an end user tool for normal people. We put in a lot of effort to make it easy to use and powerful for home users. Yes, like my and your parents. Our goal is to free people from Google and friends. Servicing companies, even starting up ownCloud, Inc. is a means to an end. Let's get that straight first.

                Want me to go over all your examples or can I leave it up to you to take back your claim?

                Ok, I'm sure you don't feel like agreeing, so let me help.
                * MySQL - was open core, dude. Plus - privately developed, they didn't even take patches.
                * JBoss - Red Hat
                * Ceph - Red Hat
                * Gluster - Red Hat
                * Zabbix - tiny company, develops products privately
                * Docker - neither copyleft nor end user, but still a nice example if it wasn't for Red Hat being the biggest Docker contributor... Yeah.
                * MariaDB - foundation developed, but yeah, there's a company. We'll see if it becomes successful...
                * Percona - services and training, not a product company.
                * Mozilla - sells default search engine...
                * Untangle - dude, open core.
                * PFsense - sells hardware

                Now they're not all bad examples - though half of them is one example (Red Hat) and many are incomparable to ownCloud. MariaDB is probably close, though, like with Red Hat, this is (again) a infrastructure product rather than an end user product. None of them are things any non technical user could ever use at home - which is EXACTLY the business we're in. You should have said "The Gimp" . Ardour, Inkscape, Blender, VLC. Those are apps which are much closer to ownCloud. But - as we both know, they have no (or super tiny) companies behind them. Why is that?

                Oh, Ardour actually tries real hard to get money. Not sure how successful they are but I like the effort. Hope it works out for them.

                Anyway. We want ownCloud to be used by home users. Yes, like my parents. Anybody using it for professional use - we'd like you to either contribute or pay. After all, you make money with ownCloud. Is that entirely fair? Yes. Would it be nicer to be more open? Sure. But let's be honest - if only relying on support means firing 2/3rd of our employees and all it gets us is a few happy forum users, then - thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather have more ownCloud users and developers. No offense.

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                • #9
                  I'll give you the Untangle one. It's been years since I used it.
                  But I won't give you Ceph, Gluster or JBoss. Saying "it doesn't count because it's Red Hat" is wrong. They were fully open source before Red Hat purchased them, so they're a success story.

                  A few other mistakes.
                  Percona absolutely is a product company as well as training/support.
                  Zabbix. Not sure how that doesn't count. They're a great company with a successful product who also do training/support company.
                  Mozilla. That counts. So they make money by using a search engine. You could do something similar with affiliate links.
                  Docker. Seriously, what's your issue with Red Hat. Yea, they invested. So what. They're still a success story.
                  pfSense. Of course it counts. So what if they sell hardware. So could you. Maybe you could partner with an OpenStack provider etc... Point is, I can use the full stack on my own hardware for free.

                  Anyway. We disagree. I don't want to continue arguing. I'd like to use the full OwnCloud product, but I can't without paying (so your desire of getting some customers to pay will do the opposite. They just won't use it at all). I think the risk comes down to this:
                  If you made OwnCloud fully open source, you fear that existing paying customers would leave. That means they need the features but not the support. Something to think about... A chance for your support team to provide more value perhaps? That's essentially what Red Hat does. If you don't want support, or the certifications that Red Hat offers, you leave to CentOS. No vendor lock-in, so Red Hat has to do a really great job in support to be worth the licensing cost.

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                  • #10
                    I didn't even kbow that openCloud was just open core. Thanks for this great puece of software.
                    I would however be interested in knowing which closed bits could be interesting to a hobbyist. Just out of curiosity.
                    The biggest issue I have with ownCloud is its performance. You need a pretty powerful computer to be able to run it correctly. I tried to install it on my nas, or very first generation raspberry pi, but the experience was not pleasant. I might give it an other go, if this update really improves performance.

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