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Pinos Is For Linux Video What PulseAudio Is For Audio

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  • #51
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    What you're talking about boils down to context switching. And yeah it is a good idea to avoid that, but keeping the cpu busy isn't a good way to it. A busy CPU isn't the answer.

    http://wiki.osdev.org/Context_Switching
    You need to read a lot more. Ancurio is absolutely right, even if low on details, and it doesn't boil down to simple context switching.

    Read this: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/pulse-glitch-free.html

    Now, PA might not be perfect, but you must remember it still runs on top of ALSA, so if your ALSA driver is misbehaving, so will PA. And no, the possibility that other apps run fine on top of ALSA and bad on top of PA doesn't mean it's PA's fault, since PA might be using another codepath of your driver.

    Back on topic, I currently don't have a need for Pinos, but it sure seems like it solves a problem people may encounter, so why not?

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    • #52
      Originally posted by DanL View Post

      Uhh, no. The key part of the statement is "once upon a time could only have one application using the sound card at the same time", could only meaning "unable to" in this instance, which is false.
      Were the solutions that came before PulseAudio perfect? No.
      Was PulseAudio ever perfect? No.
      Was/is Pulseaudio better than those solutions (either then or now)? Maybe. You've obviously got people who would argue either way. Still, that's a tired old debate and it's not relevant here. Even if the author believes it is/was better, that's not what he said or implied.


      If your reading comprehension sucks that much, you shouldn't be calling people such names. Do the world a favor and unplug your keyboard. Either throw it away or use it to beat some sense into your head before you plug it back in.
      Yelling at me about my reading comprehension when you've just taken a fair generalisation to mean something other than what the author intended.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by mdias View Post

        You need to read a lot more. Ancurio is absolutely right, even if low on details, and it doesn't boil down to simple context switching.

        Read this: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/pulse-glitch-free.html

        Now, PA might not be perfect, but you must remember it still runs on top of ALSA, so if your ALSA driver is misbehaving, so will PA. And no, the possibility that other apps run fine on top of ALSA and bad on top of PA doesn't mean it's PA's fault, since PA might be using another codepath of your driver.

        Back on topic, I currently don't have a need for Pinos, but it sure seems like it solves a problem people may encounter, so why not?
        Sorry man but a liar is a liar. LP has spewed so much crap from his mouth there is absolutely nothing that can clean it. There is zero words in that article that can be trusted. In fact I'd be willing to wager that a code audit would prove most of what he said there as lies.

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        • #54
          psychoticmeow are you turning trolling mode ?
          One of the first sentence on the blog is:
          "For those of you who has been around for a while you might remember how you once upon a time could only have one application using the sound card at the same time until PulseAudio properly fixed that."

          DanL is thus not meaning something other than what the author intended. he is just paraphrasing. The sentence meaning is clear, there was no solution for concurrency before PA, which is false. ChristianSchaller admited it himself !
          He still thought that everyone not using PA is an idiot and he is quite condescending in his post but that's none of my business.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by psychoticmeow View Post
            you've just taken a fair generalisation to mean something other than what the author intended.
            I already clearly explained why that isn't the case. I'm not going to waste any more time/effort on you.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by tenente View Post
              psychoticmeow are you turning trolling mode ?
              One of the first sentence on the blog is:
              "For those of you who has been around for a while you might remember how you once upon a time could only have one application using the sound card at the same time until PulseAudio properly fixed that."

              DanL is thus not meaning something other than what the author intended. he is just paraphrasing. The sentence meaning is clear, there was no solution for concurrency before PA, which is false. ChristianSchaller admited it himself !
              He still thought that everyone not using PA is an idiot and he is quite condescending in his post but that's none of my business.

              Well to be clear here, the key word for me here is 'properly', so while yes there was other attempts of fixing it I do hold the opinion that they where all flawed in a way that made them not viable as the final solution, which is also why most of them have already faded away from general use IMHO. Anyway, this discussion is both a digression in regards to the actual topic my blog and also more than a bit hair splitting.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by tenente View Post
                One of the first sentence on the blog is:
                "For those of you who has been around for a while you might remember how you once upon a time could only have one application using the sound card at the same time until PulseAudio properly fixed that."

                DanL is thus not meaning something other than what the author intended. he is just paraphrasing. The sentence meaning is clear, there was no solution for concurrency before PA, which is false. ChristianSchaller admited it himself !
                He still thought that everyone not using PA is an idiot and he is quite condescending in his post but that's none of my business.
                Quite right. I was wrong about that.

                Originally posted by tenente View Post
                psychoticmeow are you turning trolling mode ?
                I'll shut up when people stop posting this kind of bullshit:

                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                Sorry man but a liar is a liar. LP has spewed so much crap from his mouth there is absolutely nothing that can clean it. There is zero words in that article that can be trusted. In fact I'd be willing to wager that a code audit would prove most of what he said there as lies.
                Because lets face it stupid attitudes as expressed like this are actually a real issue in the Linux community. I may post shit from time to time, but I don't spend all of my effort to shit all over someone elses contributions like duby and gens.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2efSysPvy8
                Last edited by psychoticmeow; 01 July 2015, 01:35 PM.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by ChristianSchaller View Post


                  Well to be clear here, the key word for me here is 'properly', so while yes there was other attempts of fixing it I do hold the opinion that they where all flawed in a way that made them not viable as the final solution, which is also why most of them have already faded away from general use IMHO. Anyway, this discussion is both a digression in regards to the actual topic my blog and also more than a bit hair splitting.
                  Or maybe you could just admit that you lied instead of engage youself in hair-splitting and redefine the meaning of "you could only have one application" to the point that your lie becomes some sort of a hal f lie?

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

                    Sorry man but a liar is a liar. LP has spewed so much crap from his mouth there is absolutely nothing that can clean it. There is zero words in that article that can be trusted. In fact I'd be willing to wager that a code audit would prove most of what he said there as lies.
                    Bold statement from a man who admittedly lies to his customers to be able to sell more hardware.

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      Originally posted by timtas View Post

                      Or maybe you could just admit that you lied instead of engage youself in hair-splitting and redefine the meaning of "you could only have one application" to the point that your lie becomes some sort of a hal f lie?

                      Seriously? A lie is defined as 'a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive'.

                      So the first question you need to ask yourself is if 'deceiving' someone about the state of Linux audio 11 years ago was something I would have any interest or motivation to do here, because the key thing here is 'deliberate'. Or was the statement about the state of Linux audio 11 years ago just some flavour text that if I had left it out wouldn't really meant much to the overall message in my blog post? (hint, its the second one)

                      So as I said in my first response here, sure the statement could have been more accurate and gone into more depth about the state of Linux audio 11 years ago, but considering that the post wasn't about the state of Linux audio 11 years ago, it was about Pinos and what we wanted to do with it, I just quickly wrote up a text without spending hours deliberating on whether someone might feel it wasn't 100% correct description of the state of linux audio back in the day.

                      But having gone down this road of this random discussion I stand by an opinion that Linux audio was not working well 11 years ago and while dmix, esd and artsd tried to solve it, neither of them worked as well as Pulse Audio did. For instance I do remember that while a lot of stuff supported esd you still had issues back in the day where another application grabbed the soundcard device, and blocking esd from taking it again, causing you to suddenly get a ton of sound events piled up all playing once the other application finally released the card. And if I remember correctly dmix had issues like that you couldn't combine its mixing with audio channel downmixing, so if your soundcard supported surround, but you only had stereo speakers the remaining channels just got lost. Disclaimer: This being 11 years ago now I can't really say I have perfect recollection, so maybe I am mixing up the issues here. There where also other issues with some of these other systems like unpredictable latency, CPU usage, application support and so on. And not to say that PA was perfect, no software ever is, but it was good enough and had enough features to push the competition aside and establish itself as the standard, which helped solve some of the problems by itself as it ensured near universal application support.

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