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Systemd 219 Released With A Huge Amount Of New Features

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  • #11
    Phoronix: Where we litter every announcement with the past years prior announcements and bury the actual announcement in the article to read what you really want to read.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Ericg View Post
      No.. you don't KNOW whether or not rsyslog/syslog-ng were giving you corrupted logs because there wasn't a check FOR corrupted logs. You would've never known, at least with journald you get told "Hey, for whatever reason, maybe my fault, maybe disk's fault, part of this log is lost."
      I think you might be right about that, sorry.

      But I've never experienced corrupted logs with rsyslog/syslog-ng and I've been using Linux for more than 15 years.

      On the contrary, with journald I'm experiencing corrupted logs on a daily basis and I have to remove them manually from /var/log/journal just because they annoy me.

      I tend to do `journalctl --verify` just to check if there are any corrupted logs, and most of the time a few entries with FAIL would show up.

      And before someone says that I'm powering off my machine in a bad way, no, I'm doing `systemctl poweroff` or just `poweroff`.

      Don't get me wrong, I like systemd but corrupted logs and no way to fix them is unacceptable.
      Last edited by ihatemichael; 16 February 2015, 09:17 PM.

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      • #13
        Whoa, really welcome set of changes!

        It looks like if Lennart finally decided to obsolete stuff like Docker and properly integrate with system features like ones btrfs could provide. Appears to be very promising and powerful combo.

        So soon it will be possible to get decent VM/containers management by default in most Linux distros. Good thinking!

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        • #14
          Originally posted by ihatemichael View Post
          I think you might be right about that, sorry.

          But I've never experienced corrupted logs with rsyslog/syslog-ng and I've been using Linux for more than 15 years.

          On the contrary, with journald I'm experiencing corrupted logs on a daily basis and I have to remove them manually from /var/log/journal just because they annoy me.

          I tend to do `journalctl --verify` just to check if there are any corrupted logs, and most of the time a few entries with FAIL would show up.

          And before someone says that I'm powering off my machine in a bad way, no, I'm doing `systemctl poweroff` or just `poweroff`.

          Don't get me wrong, I like systemd but corrupted logs and no way to fix them is unacceptable.
          Look for commonalities. Are the entries always the same processes? Looking at corrupted entries vs non-corrupted ones can you tell what parts of the log might be 'corrupted' ? What filesystem are you using, maybe you uncovered a FS bug? Are you sure the disk isnt starting to go bad? I don't expect you to actually answer all these but it'd be helpful to narrow down whether or not it really is journald fscking up or whether the corrupted logs are a symptom rather than the cause.

          *Before someone jumps down my throat, it very well could be a bug in journald, and the bug report's answer of "If we fsck it we might fsck it up further" is a valid fear. Whether its the RIGHT answer or not is a different question but the fear itself is valid. Look at the early days of ext* fsck and btrfs fsck-- usually did more damage than it fixed.
          All opinions are my own not those of my employer if you know who they are.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by ihatemichael View Post
            I think you might be right about that, sorry.

            But I've never experienced corrupted logs with rsyslog/syslog-ng and I've been using Linux for more than 15 years.

            On the contrary, with journald I'm experiencing corrupted logs on a daily basis and I have to remove them manually from /var/log/journal just because they annoy me.

            I tend to do `journalctl --verify` just to check if there are any corrupted logs, and most of the time a few entries with FAIL would show up.

            And before someone says that I'm powering off my machine in a bad way, no, I'm doing `systemctl poweroff` or just `poweroff`.

            Don't get me wrong, I like systemd but corrupted logs and no way to fix them is unacceptable.

            You should get a new hard drive then :P

            Having Arch running on a USB Flash with BTRFS and never have corrupted logs

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            • #16
              The journal logs so much more information than syslog that even with a few regular corrupted log pieces you will still have more useful information to work with than if you had used syslog.

              Joking aside, of course if logs get corrupted easily, something needs to be done.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by ihatemichael View Post
                Don't get me wrong, I like systemd but corrupted logs and no way to fix them is unacceptable.
                Sounds reasonable. Have you attempted to file a bug? Though there seems to be even 2 bugs:

                First, filesystem should not corrupt files just because you've shut machine down. Most of time its true. So maybe you're running on faulty hardware, etc? If its not a case, possibly you found some nasty bug in some filesystem, etc. Then it could be reasonable to file it to bug tracking system.

                Then, there should be tool to repair broken logs, which will try to salvage as many records as it can. Smth similar to fsck. On side note: good luck to recover, say, damaged gzipped text logs. And good luck to verify correctness of plaintext logs where it could be hard to spot some kinds of damage or malicious activity at all.

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                • #18
                  Oh, it does seem like they will actually address one of my problems with journald:

                  http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/...bed30725022253

                  Now here's hoping they add a --fsck to journalctl, *please*.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by alaviss View Post
                    You should get a new hard drive then :P

                    Having Arch running on a USB Flash with BTRFS and never have corrupted logs
                    I'm running Arch on a external USB hard drive as well (regular hard drive, not flash), I'm using EXT4 as my FS.

                    I have no way to check the integrity of the hard drive as I can't do SMART over USB.
                    Last edited by ihatemichael; 16 February 2015, 09:51 PM.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
                      Then, there should be tool to repair broken logs, which will try to salvage as many records as it can. Smth similar to fsck. On side note: good luck to recover, say, damaged gzipped text logs. And good luck to verify correctness of plaintext logs where it could be hard to spot some kinds of damage or malicious activity at all.
                      Currently one a log is detected as corrupted it is removed from the rotation and marked with a "~" in the /var/log/journald directory. Whenever someone invokes journalctl to display log output it does display those corrupted logs, and it shows all salvageable data.

                      As far as the fsck utility... They are afraid that attempts to repair parts of the log could accidentally corrupt the log further. Instead they are opting to setting the log aside and essentially making it read-only in order to prevent any further corruption to it. Basically, at least in theory, once its detected as being corrupt it will never get worse. What you have is what you have, which is typically a lot, and a new log is started fresh. If an already flagged log DOES get worse then you probably have a dying hard drive.
                      All opinions are my own not those of my employer if you know who they are.

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