Originally posted by mike4
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Using Udev Without Systemd Is Going To Become Harder
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How could such a crappy udev been accepted. It's such a can of bugs not even my CH Pedals are working anymore! Unbelievable, no wonder many people move to OSX. Such will push down the number of Linux users for X-Plane from ~2% below 1%.-
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I got corrected, and rightfully so.
Originally posted by BlackStar View PostIt appears glibc can be built without NLS. That's worth trying out, the systemd people might accept patches making that work (and indirectly fixing uclibc in the process.)
Thanks,
Samuli
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Originally posted by BlackStar View PostBut then again linux is already too heavy for the DSPs I work with, so yeah. (Spending a year with SYS/BIOS 6 gives you some perspective on just how much nicer linux+systemd is...)
I understood that usually those embedded cases are pretty much one-off. Make adjustments (kernel, etc), make the hardware, sell a lot, move on to the next hardware. My knowledge of embedded is really limited (just read what other people say about it), but having systemd (or any component) support specific adjustments would be a "nice to have" to me. Systemd easily works on a raspberry pi, and that hardware is old (meaning: for same price I'd expect you'd get -as a company- a much higher specification hardware).
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Originally posted by stqn View PostSoon we?ll see systemd start to depend on some gnome service or maybe Gtk3. Oh, it will be optional at first, no worries. And one year later we?ll have the ?choice? to either rewrite the whole Linux ecosystem, use Red Hat OS, or go back to Windows.
Anyway, having systemd depend on GNOME or gtk+ is pretty ridiculous. Maybe at one point some optional tool is added which uses gtk+. At which point some distributions might show a gtk+ dependency and there will be huge threads about it.
In the various years since the creation of systemd, the minimum requirements have been pretty much the same: very recent kernel, very recent dependencies, not a lot of minimal dependencies. Various optional ones.
I don't understand the need to make up all these weird "this might happen" that I see so often on Phoronix..
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Originally posted by GreatEmerald View PostWell, good thing I just took the time to upgrade my old Gentoo installation on my tablet that used OpenRC to using systemd. It should be more or less smooth sailing from here.
The headsup is that if no one does the work to provide those interfaced when udev finally starts to use them, those systems will be broken with the latest udev.
Those calling for modularity need to provide the modularity - this is just one more technology that has been given a heads-up of future requirements. Even outside the systemd tree you can't force maintainers to not use new features that make their lives easier.
Otherwise you will get to the same point as consolekit v logind where over 2 years advance was given but modularity was lost because no one stepped up to the plate to maintain consolekit/provide an alternative with the relevant interfaces.
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Soon we?ll see systemd start to depend on some gnome service or maybe Gtk3. Oh, it will be optional at first, no worries. And one year later we?ll have the ?choice? to either rewrite the whole Linux ecosystem, use Red Hat OS, or go back to Windows.
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Originally posted by BlackStar View PostIs there really a use case for systemd + uclibc + NLS-less on an embedded platform, or is this just a nice to have option? If NLS is too heavy for a given embedded platform, then I'd expect systemd to be out of the question anyway.
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It appears glibc can be built without NLS. That's worth trying out, the systemd people might accept patches making that work (and indirectly fixing uclibc in the process.)
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Originally posted by ssuominen View PostThat has happened already for some other functions that were missing, Gentoo's Mike Frysinger sent a patch to uClibc which got applied. The secure_getenv() didn't go in, at least yet,
because it's only for logging. We will see if it will go in as well later on.
However, even if we'd sent every function to uClibc head to imitate glibc, systemd maintainers have also refused to make locale_t and other NLS specific functions optional, even
though it would be trivial, and uClibc supports NLS-less builds, so that'll stay broken anyway. uClibc without NLS is often used by embedded platforms.
But then again linux is already too heavy for the DSPs I work with, so yeah. (Spending a year with SYS/BIOS 6 gives you some perspective on just how much nicer linux+systemd is...)
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