Originally posted by johnc
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Lennart: The State & Future Of Systemd
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Originally posted by bkor View PostIt has been said numerous times before: All you do is saying that people/companies/projects/etc are irrelevant, hurtful, etc. You're alienating pretty much everyone. As a troll, you're rather poor (you behave pretty much like people say you will). If you're not attempting to troll, then that's weak too because of all of the alienating.
Isn't this the same group that basically told its users to f off?
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Originally posted by interested View PostI think you other question shows you haven't read up on systemd. systemd actually integrate with third party software like ntpd, in fact that is a major point of systemd that it provides such generic layers between programs and end users
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The point is, that these systemd services and utils doesn't have any inbuilt ntp client at all, they just use whatever version of ntp the distro have installed as their canonical ntp solution. So the distro can change ntp implementation, but all command line utils and their syntax will remain the same, just like they work the same way across all systemd distros, regardless of what ntp solution they use.
So the official systemd way of using ntp, is using third party solutions. systemd just provide a comparability layer for such third party solutions.
When he claims systemd has NTP daemon service now or DHCP, it sounds like an embrace and extend, if that's not the case, he's DOING a very poor job of explaining his features. Something along the lines of "integrates the system provided SNTP daemon" would be clear.
The stuff about syntax is hardly impressive, the old sys V init had a standard pattern, something like /etc/init.d/<daemon> start, and package installers even had LSB hooks to set up such services correctly in a standard way.
Perhaps you have a way round the most troubling systemd feature? That pid 1, is reliant on Dbus which is subject regularly to security updates and unfortunately rebooting appears to be the only way to unload the updated libraries from system memory/disk due to shareable libraries being held open. I would be very happy if there's a simple solution to this one
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Originally posted by johnc View PostI think at this point X.org is leaner than systemd.
Phoronix, Linux Hardware Reviews, Linux hardware benchmarks, Linux server benchmarks, Linux benchmarking, Desktop Linux, Linux performance, Open Source graphics, Linux How To, Ubuntu benchmarks, Ubuntu hardware, Phoronix Test Suite
tinyX server: 136539 lines including comments and whitespace, not sure if gitstats includes those or not.
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Originally posted by curaga View PostPhoronix: Systemd Continues Getting Bigger, Almost At 550k Lines Of Code
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTY5NjM
Originally posted by rob11311Perhaps you have a way round the most troubling systemd feature? That pid 1, is reliant on Dbus which is subject regularly to security updates and unfortunately rebooting appears to be the only way to unload the updated libraries from system memory/disk due to shareable libraries being held open. I would be very happy if there's a simple solution to this one
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Originally posted by rob11311 View PostActually I have read up on systemd many times, and on NTP I was going by what Lennart wrote himself on his blogs, which gave me a disturbing impression and the guy does have a track record of taking a view, justifying it with a parody appraisal of alternatives setting up straw men.
Personally Poettering strikes me as an extremely smart developer that have been able to tackle almost impossible problems like getting Linux an audio daemon without rewriting everything (it builds on ALSA), and making both a new init system and logging system that is a vast improvement over the old, while still having extremely good backwards comparability. No "flag day" problem where everything old doesn't work any more and everything new is put into production.
Originally posted by rob11311 View PostWhen he claims systemd has NTP daemon service now or DHCP, it sounds like an embrace and extend, if that's not the case, he's DOING a very poor job of explaining his features. Something along the lines of "integrates the system provided SNTP daemon" would be clear.
The point is that it has been within the scope of systemd long before came into production, to control NTP/time/date and networking. So it is hardly feature creep that they also provide an optional SNTPv4 client, same with the networking features; they are optional and the basic functionality systemd provides upstream developers works without them. (The dhcp is even built as a library so other can use its features).
Also, these new features solves actual real world problems that most other implementations doesn't care about. With mass deployment of 5000 OS containers within minutes, it actually do matter whether a dhcp connection for a lease takes 10 seconds or 10 milliseconds. They are not made and added just because someone thought they could.
But systemd will expand its scope over time. It is a given fact and now also a "mission statement" that they want to track important technological changes. kdbus and "kernel capabilities" and cgroup are great example on how systemd enables end users and distro maintainers to use new and exciting kernel features in an easy way.
I really can't see it should be a problem that Linux actually improves over time instead of stagnate into a 20th century time freeze.
Originally posted by rob11311 View PostThe stuff about syntax is hardly impressive, the old sys V init had a standard pattern, something like /etc/init.d/<daemon> start, and package installers even had LSB hooks to set up such services correctly in a standard way.
On systemd distros, systemd provides stable API's and tools and codepaths' that enable third party developers to make tools to potentially work across all systemd distros. This is exactly why DE developers from KDE, Gnome, LXDE etc. are targeting systemd for new development.
Originally posted by rob11311 View PostPerhaps you have a way round the most troubling systemd feature? That pid 1, is reliant on Dbus which is subject regularly to security updates and unfortunately rebooting appears to be the only way to unload the updated libraries from system memory/disk due to shareable libraries being held open. I would be very happy if there's a simple solution to this one
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[QUOTE=interested;427609]I think the important thing here to remember is that systemd isn't a personal Poettering project, he is just a lead developer, there are at least 24 developers with commit access and +500 contributors. It is a proven fact that many high ranking Linux kernel developers and distro maintainers totally agree with Poettering's description of the problems with old script based init-systems, and that systemd actually solves many of these problems in a modern way.
Well, here you are wrong, it is his personal project, as stated by himself http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html FAQ - Is this a Red Hat project?
No, this is my personal side project. Also, let me emphasize this: the opinions reflected here are my own. They are not the views of my employer, or Ronald McDonald, or anyone else.
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[QUOTE=mlouis;427628]Originally posted by interested View PostI think the important thing here to remember is that systemd isn't a personal Poettering project, he is just a lead developer, there are at least 24 developers with commit access and +500 contributors. It is a proven fact that many high ranking Linux kernel developers and distro maintainers totally agree with Poettering's description of the problems with old script based init-systems, and that systemd actually solves many of these problems in a modern way.
Well, here you are wrong, it is his personal project, as stated by himself http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html FAQ - Is this a Red Hat project?
No, this is my personal side project. Also, let me emphasize this: the opinions reflected here are my own. They are not the views of my employer, or Ronald McDonald, or anyone else.
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Originally posted by interested View PostThey do actually fix bugs and make it a high priority. Just look at the mailing list. That systemd seems to develop at speed is because so many developers are working on it. I don't think development will slow down at all over time, but continue with ever more features, though probably mostly new features to already existing components like service management, OS containers etc.
At the same time their hobby is to introduce bugs and then refuse to fix them, blaming anyone, but themselves.Last edited by Stellarwind; 06 July 2014, 02:44 PM.
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