Systemd Continues Getting Bigger, Almost At 550k Lines Of Code

[tomegun]

Yes, but Arch is completely done by volunteers. Red Hat is probably his day job. He is very active in the mailing list, and at least maintains a fair bit of Arch packages.

Correct.

Unless there's some other "Tom Gundersen".

Nope, I'm the same one.

[xeekei]

Correct.



Nope, I'm the same one.

Then I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your work on the awesome operating system that I use for essentially everything, Arch Linux. Thank you.

[valeriodean]

systemd is a very interesting project, I like it.
About the oppositors, they will have a bad time, I fear.
Looks like if Gnome is more correlated to systemd than before, see the commit, and KDE will follow shortly for sure.
Nobody seems to care about to waste time and energy doing a lot of work outside their interest just to say "hey! this can work without systemd, thanks a tons of hack ugly like the hell. Happy?".

[xeekei]

systemd is a very interesting project, I like it.
About the oppositors, they will have a bad time, I fear.
Looks like if Gnome is more correlated to systemd than before, see the commit, and KDE will follow shortly for sure.
Nobody seems to care about to waste time and energy doing a lot of work outside their interest just to say "hey! this can work without systemd, thanks a tons of hack ugly like the hell. Happy?".

The biggest issue is that systemd-logind doesn't have an alternative. I thought it'd be one by now. ConsoleKit is abondened, last I heard.

[Akka]

The biggest issue is that systemd-logind doesn't have an alternative. I thought it'd be one by now. ConsoleKit is abondened, last I heard.

I don't know how well it works but debian has https://packages.debian.org/sid/systemd-shim

[xeekei]

I don't know how well it works but debian has https://packages.debian.org/sid/systemd-shim

If it works, problem solved! Can we drop this now?

[interested]

The biggest issue is that systemd-logind doesn't have an alternative. I thought it'd be one by now. ConsoleKit is abondened, last I heard.

There is no long time alternative to ConsoleKit. The systemd-shim (logind) from Debian is just a temporary stop gap that right now pretends to upstream to be an ancient systemd-version.

In order for this systemd code snippet fork to work in the future, it will have to evolve into a proper independent project with its own API and stop pretending it is part of systemd.

But ConsoleKit is just the tip of the iceberg, it happens to be frequently cited example on the lethargic apathy of the systemd opponents that they are unable to even maintain CK or any alternative to it. But there will be many more problems for non-systemd distros in the future if they don't get their act together, pool their resources and start working on alternatives.

[interested]

Lies. Systemd is advertised as modular but in practice it is not. Moreover systemd developers do everything in their power to ensure that it's as pervasive as possible (dbus, kdbus, journald, logind, etc.).

systemd is in fact very modular, besides the well documented compile time options, there is even info on how to reduce it even further in size by removing features:

http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/MinimalBuilds/

Remember that the embedded market are among the driving forces in systemd adaptation, and they may need such modularity that systemd offers.

You could probably even write and substitute any particular module with your own, as long as it adhere to its modular design regarding interfacing etc.

Being modular isn't about being able to rip out any part of systemd and make it work independently together with random other elements.

Systemd is cancer that is slowly killing Linux.

Systemd is the best thing that have happened to Linux for a very long time. It is really good stuff, with good code, good documentation, good leadership, great many developers. They really did their homework properly before starting making it, by analysing all kinds of init systems in order to learn the best from them. It is full of little details that show the developers care, like the best CLI-completion I have seen for a long time. It makes it a joy to use from the CLI.

Besides being the best init-system on any Linux or Unix like system and a vast improvement over sysv-init, it is also a great developer interface for upstream projects that solves real life problems.

All this have ensured that systemd have won over every major distro, and will continue to win over many smaller ones too.

Systemd, cgroup, kdbus, Wayland is the future developer stack for Linux, and this is a good thing too.

[pingufunkybeat]

So what! systemd also uses freetype and libav!

In fact, both freetype and libav are now developed within the systemd tree, and use systemd calls exclusively.

[interested]

For me it isn't actually about technical issues at all if I should run systemd or not.
For me the core question is: Should I put a collection of software at the very core of my systems that is maintained and developed with people like Kay Sievers and Lennart Poettering as heads of the project, with their very poor track record of blaming bugs on others, being zealots about their project, ..., to the point that the head developer of the most important open source project in the world, Linus Torvalds, tells them to fuck of until they get their shit together.

The clear answer from me is: No, until you get your shit together I will not put systemd on my systems or systems that I am responsible for. systemd might be a good project, but the developers simply are narcissists who think that they are always right and everybody else is wrong. Nope, not on my systems. Replace Sievers and Poettering and I may think about using systemd.

This of course sounds like hate, but in reality it is a trust issue, simple as that. I don't trust them, I don't use their software. Many of you argue the same way about Microsoft or Apple, I don't see why it shouldn't be valid here.

Replacing two lead developers on systemd just because some anonymous posters on Phoronix wishes it, ain't going to happen. Besides, the vague accusations you are bringing up won't convince anybody that there is a problem. In fact, Poettering seems to be a successful lead developer that attract other developers (+500 developers have now contributed to the project) and bring in crowds when making public speeches. Systemd is in fact progressing all the time, which is more than can be said about its alternatives.

But there is an easy solution for those who likes systemd, but won't use it because of personal problems with some of its developers; and that is of cause forking the project. Probably a more realistic option than starting making an alternative from scratch anyway.