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Systemd 199 Has Its Own D-Bus Client Library

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  • ninez
    replied
    Originally posted by frign View Post
    There is more to Jack than the Daemon (jackd), smartass. It is part of the Kernel, because there is active support for its user-space-implementation. It is as if you were stating udev wasn't part of the Kernel only because it is just the user-space tool to manage the /dev-FS (which is explicitly right, but implicitly wrong).
    This stands in sharp contrast to PulseAudio, which is not endorsed by the Kernel; that makes me feel warm inside .
    First off, presumptuous *asshole* -> i wasn't being a smartass ~ just stating a fact. Jack is a user-space application.
    Sure, some changes were made to ALSA to improve support (which is no surprise since it's alsa's job to handle sound on the linux platform @ the lower levels), but that still does not change the fact that Jack is a user-space application.

    EDIT: You can come back and claim it is in the kernel - when i have to compile a jack kernel module, k? - until then, you are wrong, plain and simple.
    Last edited by ninez; 03-29-2013, 01:11 PM.

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  • ceage
    replied
    Originally posted by Teho View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but to my understanding PulseAudio uses alsa-lib to interact with the kernel. However ALSA doesn't do mixing in the kernel so in any case you need to add additional mixer on top of it (you also need one for networked audio, audio processing and such that PulseAudio also does). Peope who refer to "plain ALSA" probably mean the mixer shipped with alsa-plugins called dmix.
    Strictly speaking, the ALSA related modules from libpulse use a tiny part of alsalib (the daemon itself doesn't), but that's only because alsa-lib is the way to do basic stuff like device enumeration and querying the kernel about the (sound) hardware capabilities, and because PA knows it's not alone in the world (and won't be for some time). It doesn't use the heavyweight stuff from alsalib (e.g. the whole plugin system).

    Anyway, from a typical app developer's perspective it was wrong from the beginning to write against alsa-lib. It's no surprise that people kept doing it though, considering how the whole Linux ecosystem works. It wasn't their fault that there was no better standard way. Just as it's not Lennart's fault that all the other sound servers failed at becoming standard. Because a general purpose operating system really needs such a mechanism. I think users should be happy about the fact that PulseAudio seems to be a good enough design (bugs aside) to become the standard for doing sound on Linux

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  • Ericg
    replied
    Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
    Gentoo.


    Gentoo has optional pulseaudio support - some packages need it (like Gnome3), for everything else it can be controlled through USE-Flags - something binary distris simply can't do, so they just default to pulseaudio everywhere. And again the misconfiguration argument I mentioned before...
    BTW. If forgot to mention one funny observation back then: While everything gstreamer (0.10 and 1.0) related crackled vlc just did work - also with pulseaudio enabled. But gstreamer works fine with just plain alsa. So a bug in pulseaudio-usage in gstreamer? Why only mkv's?


    hd-intel, Processor is an i7 2600K, so quite enough power to "handle the best audio resampling quality". Probably a problem with alsa wrapped by pulseaudio wrapped by gstreamer - difficult to tell who does something wrong, probably an accumulation of a bug in one of these components.
    Arch wiki's pulseaudio page, under Troubleshooting. Check it out. Pulses defaults are pretty good but the timer based scheduling has a habit of revealing two things: crappy hardware defaults. (Pulses default config should work just fine unless your hardware does something screwy.) And buggy drivers. Samething that happened when Pulse first launched. Its not that Pulse was wrecking peoples audio its that it was hitting untested codepaths in the alsa drivers and there were, a lot,
    Of bugs in those paths.

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  • JS987
    replied
    Originally posted by Teho View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but to my understanding PulseAudio uses alsa-lib to interact with the kernel. However ALSA doesn't do mixing in the kernel so in any case you need to add additional mixer on top of it (you also need one for networked audio, audio processing and such that PulseAudio also does). Peope who refer to "plain ALSA" probably mean the mixer shipped with alsa-plugins called dmix.
    plain ALSA is alsa without dmix.

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  • JS987
    replied
    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    So what distribution was that? If you try one that already uses systemd and PulseAudio (which is the vast majority of them), you should see that such problems are not there, hence the problem was misconfiguration.

    For PA defaults, it depends on your individual sound card drivers. Some simply can't work with timer-based scheduling, for instance. Some, on the contrary, only work with it. Some processors can handle the best audio resampling quality, some are not powerful enough. So there is no way to set perfect defaults for everything.
    PA is broken if it resamples although sound card supports frequency of source.
    PA should only resample if sound card doesn't support frequency of source.

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  • Teho
    replied
    Originally posted by ceage View Post
    It's sad how some confused users keep promoting plain ALSA when in fact they mean to say alsalib, without ever realizing that PulseAudio is just a rewrite of the latter -- not some kind of ``additional layer''. (And the fact that PA has a daemon is just boring implementation details.)
    Correct me if I'm wrong but to my understanding PulseAudio uses alsa-lib to interact with the kernel. However ALSA doesn't do mixing in the kernel so in any case you need to add additional mixer on top of it (you also need one for networked audio, audio processing and such that PulseAudio also does). Peope who refer to "plain ALSA" probably mean the mixer shipped with alsa-plugins called dmix.

    Leave a comment:


  • ceage
    replied
    It's sad how some confused users keep promoting plain ALSA when in fact they mean to say alsalib, without ever realizing that PulseAudio is just a rewrite of the latter -- not some kind of ``additional layer''. (And the fact that PA has a daemon is just boring implementation details.)

    Leave a comment:


  • GreatEmerald
    replied
    Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
    Gentoo.


    Gentoo has optional pulseaudio support - some packages need it (like Gnome3), for everything else it can be controlled through USE-Flags - something binary distris simply can't do, so they just default to pulseaudio everywhere. And again the misconfiguration argument I mentioned before...
    BTW. If forgot to mention one funny observation back then: While everything gstreamer (0.10 and 1.0) related crackled vlc just did work - also with pulseaudio enabled. But gstreamer works fine with just plain alsa. So a bug in pulseaudio-usage in gstreamer? Why only mkv's?


    hd-intel, Processor is an i7 2600K, so quite enough power to "handle the best audio resampling quality". Probably a problem with alsa wrapped by pulseaudio wrapped by gstreamer - difficult to tell who does something wrong, probably an accumulation of a bug in one of these components.
    See, I just finished setting up a Gentoo install with both systemd and PulseAudio, no issues whatsoever. It's still easier on other distributions that have it all pre-configured, but it's not like they just don't work. Once again, you can try binary distributions and see what I mean. If something doesn't work there as well, then it's a bug and should be reported.

    A funny observation from my end: on my main PC, running openSUSE, GStreamer works perfectly with PulseAudio (aside from the well-known 2 second pause bug in Amarok, but it's reportedly fixed in GStreamer 1.0), while VLC from time to time explodes into static, and the only way to get normal sound back is to restart the audio by changing default devices. But that happens only with ctxfi, with onboard Azalia chip VLC doesn't do that. Hence this is a bug in the way VLC interacts with PulseAudio over the ctxfi driver.

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  • Rexilion
    replied
    Originally posted by schmalzler View Post
    Gentoo has optional pulseaudio support - some packages need it (like Gnome3), for everything else it can be controlled through USE-Flags - something binary distris simply can't do, so they just default to pulseaudio everywhere.
    Not true, I have an Ubuntu install with cli.seed and some packages on top. No pulseaudio, just Alsa. This is with Ubuntu 12.10.

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  • schmalzler
    replied
    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    So what distribution was that?
    Gentoo.

    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    If you try one that already uses systemd and PulseAudio (which is the vast majority of them), you should see that such problems are not there, hence the problem was misconfiguration.
    Gentoo has optional pulseaudio support - some packages need it (like Gnome3), for everything else it can be controlled through USE-Flags - something binary distris simply can't do, so they just default to pulseaudio everywhere. And again the misconfiguration argument I mentioned before...
    BTW. If forgot to mention one funny observation back then: While everything gstreamer (0.10 and 1.0) related crackled vlc just did work - also with pulseaudio enabled. But gstreamer works fine with just plain alsa. So a bug in pulseaudio-usage in gstreamer? Why only mkv's?

    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    For PA defaults, it depends on your individual sound card drivers. Some simply can't work with timer-based scheduling, for instance. Some, on the contrary, only work with it. Some processors can handle the best audio resampling quality, some are not powerful enough. So there is no way to set perfect defaults for everything.
    hd-intel, Processor is an i7 2600K, so quite enough power to "handle the best audio resampling quality". Probably a problem with alsa wrapped by pulseaudio wrapped by gstreamer - difficult to tell who does something wrong, probably an accumulation of a bug in one of these components.

    Leave a comment:

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