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FSF Wastes Away Another "High Priority" Project

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  • archibald
    replied
    Originally posted by hal2k1 View Post
    Please understand ... if you write your own code, it is your code. You may license it however you please, and there is absolutely no problem with this. If you include some LGPL libraries to help, that too is fine, because LGPL libraries explicitly allow you to do this. All is fine and good with that.

    What you and your company is doing is nothing like that ... you are writing your own code and using LGPL libraries in a way that they were intended to be used. I am sure everyone would join me in wishing you every success (even if we ourselves would not be interested in using yor code or your company's proprietary product).
    My apologies, I misunderstood what you meant. In case anybody's curious, it's an industrial product with a very small circulation, and the companies to which we sell would rather speak to us directly and get us to add features than one of their own staff to do it. The software I write is the configuration tool for that device. I'd like to open-source it, but I have yet to find an argument that will clinch it for my boss. Until I find one, I'm settling for open-sourcing what I can, and migrating what systems I can to open source ones.

    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    There is always something to gain by opening the source. As a matter of fact, one of the objectives of GPL is to make sure it is the case. However, whether or not it makes sense to open the source depends on the program in question.
    True, I wrote that too hastily. Past experience with customers has been that when we've allowed them to write scripts to configure some aspects of the system they have bombarded us with requests for support or to debug their code and explain why it isn't working. It got so bad that we were finding it quite hard to find the time to do actual development work.

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  • GreatEmerald
    replied
    Originally posted by archibald View Post
    It seems that a lot of people are putting words in the mouths of proprietary developers and open source developers. If I comply with the terms of the licenses (I do), I don't see what the problem is. My company won't allow me to open source our code (we have nothing to gain by doing so), but my boss was happy to employ (part-time) our placement student through his final year to develop an extension to one of the LGPL libraries that we use.
    There is always something to gain by opening the source. As a matter of fact, one of the objectives of GPL is to make sure it is the case. However, whether or not it makes sense to open the source depends on the program in question.

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  • ворот93
    replied
    Originally posted by hal2k1 View Post
    Please understand ... if you write your own code, it is your code. You may license it however you please, and there is absolutely no problem with this. If you include some LGPL libraries to help, that too is fine, because LGPL libraries explicitly allow you to do this. All is fine and good with that.

    The only problem is when a developer takes GPL code and tries to make a derivative program using that code and then make that derivative program closed source. That is the no-no. The copyright owners of the GPL'd code have expressly forbidden that ... the GPL code is meant for the freedom of the end users, not for them to get ripped off by some downstream proprietary developer sponging of the efforts of the original GPL code authors.

    What you and your company is doing is nothing like that ... you are writing your own code and using LGPL libraries in a way that they were intended to be used. I am sure everyone would join me in wishing you every success (even if we ourselves would not be interested in using yor code or your company's proprietary product).
    And FSF has not written a single line of code for LibreDWG. FSF's stubborness = ripping off everyone else.

    No one will hand over rights to FSF after this.

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  • hal2k1
    replied
    Originally posted by archibald View Post
    I'll admit to this point of what may be unforgivable: in my day job I write closed source code. I also use open-source libraries (LGPL/BSD) with that code. I also write my own open source programs (BSD-licensed).

    It seems that a lot of people are putting words in the mouths of proprietary developers and open source developers. If I comply with the terms of the licenses (I do), I don't see what the problem is. My company won't allow me to open source our code (we have nothing to gain by doing so), but my boss was happy to employ (part-time) our placement student through his final year to develop an extension to one of the LGPL libraries that we use.

    The way I see it, everybody wins in this situation: my company saves money, we financially support a student when money is likely to be tight (and hold a job open for him when he's done) and the LGPL library gets expanded. I don't see how anything we're doing is bad.
    Please understand ... if you write your own code, it is your code. You may license it however you please, and there is absolutely no problem with this. If you include some LGPL libraries to help, that too is fine, because LGPL libraries explicitly allow you to do this. All is fine and good with that.

    The only problem is when a developer takes GPL code and tries to make a derivative program using that code and then make that derivative program closed source. That is the no-no. The copyright owners of the GPL'd code have expressly forbidden that ... the GPL code is meant for the freedom of the end users, not for them to get ripped off by some downstream proprietary developer sponging of the efforts of the original GPL code authors.

    What you and your company is doing is nothing like that ... you are writing your own code and using LGPL libraries in a way that they were intended to be used. I am sure everyone would join me in wishing you every success (even if we ourselves would not be interested in using yor code or your company's proprietary product).

    Leave a comment:


  • ворот93
    replied
    Originally posted by tomato View Post
    Now you're talking out your your ass

    Protecting against tivoisation and patents is important, even Linus knows that, and he would gladly port Linux to GPL3 if not for those few tens of thousands of people he'd have to contact about the matter first.

    Besides, the readline library is GPL, not LGPL for the exact same reason: because there are no proprietary libraries that do the same, so that truly Free software could benefit from the advantage given by ability to use those libraries. It's all in the FSF FAQ, ffs!
    Please provide a proof that Linus said that. IIRC he said that he does not give a fuck HOW software is used and it is not up to us to judge installation.

    Leave a comment:


  • archibald
    replied
    I'll admit to this point of what may be unforgivable: in my day job I write closed source code. I also use open-source libraries (LGPL/BSD) with that code. I also write my own open source programs (BSD-licensed).

    It seems that a lot of people are putting words in the mouths of proprietary developers and open source developers. If I comply with the terms of the licenses (I do), I don't see what the problem is. My company won't allow me to open source our code (we have nothing to gain by doing so), but my boss was happy to employ (part-time) our placement student through his final year to develop an extension to one of the LGPL libraries that we use.

    The way I see it, everybody wins in this situation: my company saves money, we financially support a student when money is likely to be tight (and hold a job open for him when he's done) and the LGPL library gets expanded. I don't see how anything we're doing is bad.
    Last edited by archibald; 01-25-2013, 07:45 AM. Reason: changed 'in that code' to 'with that code' to make my meaning clearer

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  • hal2k1
    replied
    Originally posted by erendorn View Post
    Devs of closed source front-end will not open their code for the sake of using a GPL library, and FOSS gains nothing. If they use a LGPL library, they will contribute back to it. Which is arguably better, when the Libre-Software product is not the front-end, but that damn library.
    FOSS simply doesn't want closed-source anything. If you want to write closed source and charge end users for it ... go away, FOSS wants nothing from you and you may not use FOSS's code.

    FOSS is open software developed by and for its own community of users. That community can, and does, include commercial companies (typically companies that do not sell closed source code as their product). Closed developers can go **** themselves.

    Leave a comment:


  • BSD SUCKS DICKS
    replied
    BSDs Wastes Away Their SHITTY LITTLE LIVES

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  • tomato
    replied
    Originally posted by ворот93 View Post
    Only religious wackos are concerned by this stuff. For Stallman and the like arguing is more important than getting things done. That's why GNU Hurd is dead in the water and GNU product = slow as shit.
    Now you're talking out your your ass

    Protecting against tivoisation and patents is important, even Linus knows that, and he would gladly port Linux to GPL3 if not for those few tens of thousands of people he'd have to contact about the matter first.

    Besides, the readline library is GPL, not LGPL for the exact same reason: because there are no proprietary libraries that do the same, so that truly Free software could benefit from the advantage given by ability to use those libraries. It's all in the FSF FAQ, ffs!

    Leave a comment:


  • erendorn
    replied
    Originally posted by oliver View Post
    And that is the whole point, closed-source developers are in the wrong mindset, working on the wrong things on wrong terms.

    Remember what Libre-Software is all about? Not making life easier for closed source developers, who want to use this easy library/tool just so that they don't have to pay for it.
    Closed-source developers are in a different mindset, working on their things on their terms.

    Libre-Software is not a war against removing closed source alternatives. If it's a war, it's for providing open source alternatives.

    Devs of closed source front-end will not open their code for the sake of using a GPL library, and FOSS gains nothing. If they use a LGPL library, they will contribute back to it. Which is arguably better, when the Libre-Software product is not the front-end, but that damn library.

    Leave a comment:

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