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Gentoo Developers Unhappy, Fork udev

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  • RealNC
    replied
    I hope this won't affect Gentoo's plans for systemd support? Right now it's not as easy as simply emerging it and having it just work.

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  • ryao
    replied
    Originally posted by Teho View Post
    -Kay Sievers


    -Koen Kooi



    -https://plus.google.com/u/0/11104916... Kroah-Hartman


    Are you joking? Over the last year systemd has had commits from 118 contributors and from 27 in the last month. It's also developed by various companies like Intel, Ericpol Telecom(?) and ProFusion. Not to mention that two Arch Linux developers have done quite a bit of upstream systemd developement too. Oh and yes, there's quite a bit of a difference between fulltime developers and hobbyist.
    The principle systemd developers are two guys and we have the relevant pre-existing work in our repository. We yet to do our first tag and our top priority is making progress toward our first tag. The plan is to reintroduce libkmod support when we have it rewritten as an optional dependency.

    With that said, Volunteer developers are more than capable of competing with professional developers when there is an order of magnitude difference in code. The sheer amount of bloat in systemd is staggering and we are removing it from udev.
    Last edited by ryao; 11-17-2012, 11:00 PM.

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  • daniels
    replied
    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    I had no idea this forum is filled with system admins who fiddle with init scrips all the time.
    i was going to say that i'd be interested to see how many people in this thread had ever even seen the udev source, but i'm pretty sure i know the answer already.

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  • RealNC
    replied
    I had no idea this forum is filled with system admins who fiddle with init scrips all the time.

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  • Teho
    replied
    Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
    Tizen is also using systemd afaik and there are plans to use it for user stuff as well in the future. Not sure what mer-project (the base for the new company jolla) uses but i think i saw something related to systemd and mer.
    Mer uses systemd. Intel probably does all the Tizen related systemd developement. It's used by numerous companies just not all of them do any upstream developement. It's for exampe part of the GENEVI IVI platform so even companies like Canonical support it.

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  • 89c51
    replied
    Originally posted by Teho View Post
    Are you joking? Over the last year systemd has had commits from 118 contributors and from 27 in the last month. It's also developed by various companies like Intel, Ericpol Telecom(?) and ProFusion. Not to mention that two Arch Linux developers have done quite a bit of upstream systemd developement too. Oh and yes, there's quite a bit of a difference between fulltime developers and hobbyist.

    Tizen is also using systemd afaik and there are plans to use it for user stuff as well in the future. Not sure what mer-project (the base for the new company jolla) uses but i think i saw something related to systemd and mer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Teho
    replied
    "A ton of commits were made involving kmod and it is quite clear that it is broken, so we remove it."

    The commit above will add 100-150 entirely useless fork()/exec() to every bootup, and not have any other benefit. The same code, with the same dependencies will run, just with a forked binary. But hey, today's systems need only 150 PIDs to bring up the entire system, so who cares.

    Suggestion: if you want a project to believe in, we all need that sometimes, look for something else, this boat will sink faster than it will learn to swim.

    Actually I have nothing against a udev fork, if it looks useful to people go for it. I would even answer sensible questions, or whatever is needed. But that thing really just looks like a bad joke.
    -Kay Sievers

    Cute, gentoo wants to make a second, different fork of udev because the first gentoo fork is apparently too hostile to other gentoo developers.

    Gentoo-devel and debian-devel, the gifts that keep on giving on rainy saturdays.
    -Koen Kooi

    As +Koen Kooi so aptly states, this is the perfect gift for a weekend's worth of entertainment.

    It's sad to watch people delete code they don't understand.
    -https://plus.google.com/u/0/11104916... Kroah-Hartman


    Originally posted by ryan
    Redhat has 2 guys working on systemd while we have 7 on the team that is working on the udev fork. Who do you think is suffering from a lack of manpower?
    Are you joking? Over the last year systemd has had commits from 118 contributors and from 27 in the last month. It's also developed by various companies like Intel, Ericpol Telecom(?) and ProFusion. Not to mention that two Arch Linux developers have done quite a bit of upstream systemd developement too. Oh and yes, there's quite a bit of a difference between fulltime developers and hobbyist.

    Leave a comment:


  • Akka
    replied
    Originally posted by Xake View Post
    His comment was about how udev was handled in general and the philosophy behind the firmware-loading specifically. However he also had a comment about how udev had been incorporated into systemd, and what impact that had on how it is maintained.
    And since Kay and Lennart was so kind to tightly integrate udev into systemd, and talk about how they will allow but not *support* an out-of-systemd usage of udev the question is if we really can separate the two as different projects anymore?
    I didn't saw anything besides the module loading. Or was it more than the linked mail conversion?
    Besides that i got the impression that the maintainer and the earlier maintainer mostly had the same view in how the module loading should work?

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  • ryao
    replied
    Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
    Yes thats true.Even more sadly our beloved neckbeard crowd suffered from another delusion too; The failed to grasp that no one was willing to maintain udev as it was.

    Greg stopped.
    Kay is willing on the terms it goes to systemd.
    The Gentoo crowd can only do forks which is so much easier because they can merge from systemd.

    I guess that is too complicated to understand when your neckbeard is growing so large it stops blood coming to your head. It is so sad to see clear evidence of lack of manpower results in waste of man power. The only fun part we get is to watch a bunch of neckbeards go crazy on a yellow journalism forum.
    Redhat has 2 guys working on systemd while we have 7 on the team that is working on the udev fork. Who do you think is suffering from a lack of manpower?

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  • Xake
    replied
    Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
    The Linus crazy comment had nothing to do with Lennart or systemd in general. He was referring to Kay and the udev maintenance.
    His comment was about how udev was handled in general and the philosophy behind the firmware-loading specifically. However he also had a comment about how udev had been incorporated into systemd, and what impact that had on how it is maintained.
    And since Kay and Lennart was so kind to tightly integrate udev into systemd, and talk about how they will allow but not *support* an out-of-systemd usage of udev the question is if we really can separate the two as different projects anymore?

    Leave a comment:

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