GIMP 2.10 To Be Fully Ported To GEGL Core

[FishB8]

@FishB8: Thanks for the comment and correction re 32 bit color depth in Gimp.

Monitor calibration: I have ArgyllCMS and dispcalGUI installed on my Linux system. I like them, but they don't allow me to upload the profiles into my NEC screen. I need to see how much that would impact actual results. In theory, ArgyllCMS works in 8 bit color depth, and any profile adjustment will limit that even further. My screen and matched colorimeter use 14 bit color depth. The NEC screen is a wide gamut screen with nearly AdobeRGB color space. In the reds its even significantly wider than AdobeRGB, so I can work comfortably in a ProColor space and see colors most screens won't be able to produce. For my type of photography - landscapes/cityscapes with lots of desert landscapes - the red channel is the one to pay attention to.
I need to experiment with ArgyllCMS and see how it works, but, as stated above, it may be sub-optimal.

Good question. I've never owned a wide gamut screen, so I've never looked into it. I think that before you even start playing with ArgyllCMS that there may be limitations in X11. I have no idea how X11 deals with that. (might also be something to bring up to the wayland devs) I would strongly advise contacting the the ArgyllCMS devs directly. If ArgyllCMS does not support that yet, it may simply be a matter of asking. Although, usually in situations like that, the biggest limitation is when the developers don't have access to high end equipment like that themselves.

Photoshop is also a generic editor, yet it provides ample support for a professional photo editing workflow. I downloaded darktable but haven't given it a real workout. It mimics Lightroom, but it looks like I would need to spend some time with darkroom to get used to it. Right now I use Capture NX2 plus the Nik filters for RAW conversion and most processing. I seldom need to edit in PS. Capture NX2 has its ups (ease of use and support for camera profiles) and downs (undocumented features=bugs), and I had my grievances with it that made me consider Lightroom as the alternative (now that LR is on par with Capture NX2 with regard to image sharpness and color rendition). Changing what I'm using now means a lot of learning, which I would go through if the results are as good as what I got now. In fact, even though I used Capture NX2 for many years, I just recently discovered the best combination of profile, saturation, and sharpening settings that give me the results I was looking for. Adopting these adjustments to another workflow won't be easy.
Finally, lens distortion, vignetting, and CA correction require lens specific data that I doubt will be available in Gimp, darktable or any non-pro (commercial) application.

Filters: I hate to trash my Nik filters - they are really good. The Nik filters work in both Capture NX2 and Photoshop, and i believe also in Lightroom. I don't use them often, but when I do, they make all the difference.

There is yet another issue: If I can't use/run Capture NX2 all my RAW file edits will be lost forever, unless I convert the files. This would be a major project, much more so since Capture NX2 has some bug with regard to Nik filters that prevent some of the filters being applied when batch processing.

I know that Darktable can do lens distortion, vignetting, and chromatic aberrations, (using info in the raw file, and using lens specific data) so you might want to look into seeing if that might fit into your workflow. But I doubt that Gimp or Darktable will ever work with Nik filters since I really doubt that either project will try to implement a clone of Photoshop or NX2 plugin APIs. (And I doubt Nik will have any motivation to port either).

Trying to get professional functionality can take a while. Developers need more than just a feature request in their bug tracker, they need colaboration and constant feedback and testing. And occasionally they need equipment too. If you are willing to get your hands dirty, and find a developer who is willing to collaborate, you can eventually get the professional functionality you are looking for. I would recommend you read a blog entry by David Revoy. He is an digital paint artist using Linux based software who worked for 3 years with the Krita developers. Their software was almost totally unusable to him, but over the last 3 years he worked with the developers to get the functionality he needed, and with the latest version of Krita released a couple weeks ago, it has advanced to the point where is has become his primary tool. It's an interesting read: http://www.davidrevoy.com/index.php?...-2-4-very-soon

[powerhouse]

Well, I wrote this particular thought having all readers on mind. When I get a job, I will definitively support financially the developers of tools I use. But I also understand that no feature is written in no time. Therefore, I understand your pain. Even at the most optimistic scenario Linux is still years from professional photo editing.
Have you ever considered Crossover? I have no idea how it supports the photo editing software, but I think it is at least worth taking a look. They give two weeks of trial.

Thanks, I looked up Crossover support for Capture NX2, Photoshop 4 or 5, Lightroom 3 or 4. None of it is supported. I may give it try, though I doubt it will work.

[Hirager]

@Hirager: I'm not in a position to pay for development. However, if Gimp (or whatever software) gives me the right tools, I would pay for the software or donate some money (a few hundred bucks).

We are in a competitive environment. To me, Linux wins hands down on the OS side. BUT, the lack of support for professional photo editing software is a big bummer (to me). Some features are essential - like more than 8-bit color depth - not supporting them is a no-go.

I would be willing to compromise on some features, but not on image quality and speed (workflow). Even with commercial applications (all of which run on Windows or Mac, not on Linux) it's not that easy to get things right.

There have been several attempts to produce pro-level photo editing applications natively under Linux, for example Lightzone. Each one I tried had its good things, but in the end they didn't fill my requirements or didn't produce the quality I was after.

I spent enough money on photo gear and PC hardware and wouldn't mind paying the price for commercial software on Linux. If Adobe released Photoshop and Lightroom (or even only the latter) on Linux, I'd be more than happy to buy it. If Gimp (or any other application) provides the essentials plus many of the goodies found in Lightroom/PS, I would be equally happy. But looking at my experiences with open-source or Linux-based photo editing software, I'm sorry to say that I have almost given up. I really wish I would be taught otherwise.

Well, I wrote this particular thought having all readers on mind. When I get a job, I will definitively support financially the developers of tools I use. But I also understand that no feature is written in no time. Therefore, I understand your pain. Even at the most optimistic scenario Linux is still years from professional photo editing.
Have you ever considered Crossover? I have no idea how it supports the photo editing software, but I think it is at least worth taking a look. They give two weeks of trial.

[powerhouse]

Paying for Gimp features

@Hirager: I'm not in a position to pay for development. However, if Gimp (or whatever software) gives me the right tools, I would pay for the software or donate some money (a few hundred bucks).

We are in a competitive environment. To me, Linux wins hands down on the OS side. BUT, the lack of support for professional photo editing software is a big bummer (to me). Some features are essential - like more than 8-bit color depth - not supporting them is a no-go.

I would be willing to compromise on some features, but not on image quality and speed (workflow). Even with commercial applications (all of which run on Windows or Mac, not on Linux) it's not that easy to get things right.

There have been several attempts to produce pro-level photo editing applications natively under Linux, for example Lightzone. Each one I tried had its good things, but in the end they didn't fill my requirements or didn't produce the quality I was after.

I spent enough money on photo gear and PC hardware and wouldn't mind paying the price for commercial software on Linux. If Adobe released Photoshop and Lightroom (or even only the latter) on Linux, I'd be more than happy to buy it. If Gimp (or any other application) provides the essentials plus many of the goodies found in Lightroom/PS, I would be equally happy. But looking at my experiences with open-source or Linux-based photo editing software, I'm sorry to say that I have almost given up. I really wish I would be taught otherwise.

[powerhouse]

AMD vs. Nvidia

@d.a.a.: Thanks for the ups on AMD versus Nvidia. I'm not planing in using the GPU for computation, though I understand that Photoshop can use it. My goal is to assemble a general purpose PC running Linux for everyday tasks, and supports my photo editing needs, which is where I need a powerful system. Right now I have a dual-boot setup with Linux and Windows XP pro. I would much prefer a single boot solution with Linux where I can run my photo editing stuff either natively under Linux (provided that I find the right tools - Gimp?, darktable?, etc.) or with Windows 7 installed in a VM.

I would need to make sure that the VM solution doesn't compromise performance, at least not significantly.

The hardest part with a VM solution is the support of screen calibration and direct access to the VGA, for calibration but perhaps also for GPU computation if the software and setup supports it.

My wanting to choose Nvidia over AMD has to do with good experience with the former, and lack of experience with the latter. My plan is to get a Zortac GTX 550 Ti card, which is a mid-priced card. I don't need high fps for games.

So I'm interested in a Linux + Xen/kvm/Virtualbox setup that allows me to use VGA passthrough. I am using now Virtualbox for some non-demanding tasks, but favor kvm for the wide support, kernel integration and good performance. Unfortunately, the only successful VGA passthrough instructions I found are with Xen. Someone wrote a patch for kvm to support it, but it's been rejected by the kvm team, who seem to be set on Spice. I've no idea if Spice will ever support VGA passthrough, and if it does, what limitations I could expect.

Even with the Xen VGA passthrough example the PC would require two graphics cards and a dual monitor setup, or a way to switch between the two graphics cards.

The hardware I chose for the PC is supposed to support VT-d: i7 3930K (C2 stepping) and Asus Sabertooth X79 (the specs say it does support VT-d though I have not found any user reports on that), with 32 Gig memory.

Bottom line: If someone can suggest a graphics card that he/she has used with VGA passthrough, that would help.

[powerhouse]

Gimp photo editing workflow / alternatives

@FishB8: Thanks for the comment and correction re 32 bit color depth in Gimp.

Monitor calibration: I have ArgyllCMS and dispcalGUI installed on my Linux system. I like them, but they don't allow me to upload the profiles into my NEC screen. I need to see how much that would impact actual results. In theory, ArgyllCMS works in 8 bit color depth, and any profile adjustment will limit that even further. My screen and matched colorimeter use 14 bit color depth. The NEC screen is a wide gamut screen with nearly AdobeRGB color space. In the reds its even significantly wider than AdobeRGB, so I can work comfortably in a ProColor space and see colors most screens won't be able to produce. For my type of photography - landscapes/cityscapes with lots of desert landscapes - the red channel is the one to pay attention to.
I need to experiment with ArgyllCMS and see how it works, but, as stated above, it may be sub-optimal.

Photoshop is also a generic editor, yet it provides ample support for a professional photo editing workflow. I downloaded darktable but haven't given it a real workout. It mimics Lightroom, but it looks like I would need to spend some time with darkroom to get used to it. Right now I use Capture NX2 plus the Nik filters for RAW conversion and most processing. I seldom need to edit in PS. Capture NX2 has its ups (ease of use and support for camera profiles) and downs (undocumented features=bugs), and I had my grievances with it that made me consider Lightroom as the alternative (now that LR is on par with Capture NX2 with regard to image sharpness and color rendition). Changing what I'm using now means a lot of learning, which I would go through if the results are as good as what I got now. In fact, even though I used Capture NX2 for many years, I just recently discovered the best combination of profile, saturation, and sharpening settings that give me the results I was looking for. Adopting these adjustments to another workflow won't be easy.
Finally, lens distortion, vignetting, and CA correction require lens specific data that I doubt will be available in Gimp, darktable or any non-pro (commercial) application.

Filters: I hate to trash my Nik filters - they are really good. The Nik filters work in both Capture NX2 and Photoshop, and i believe also in Lightroom. I don't use them often, but when I do, they make all the difference.

There is yet another issue: If I can't use/run Capture NX2 all my RAW file edits will be lost forever, unless I convert the files. This would be a major project, much more so since Capture NX2 has some bug with regard to Nik filters that prevent some of the filters being applied when batch processing.

[FishB8]

Now Gimp seems to get 16 bit color depth.

It's more than just 16bit color depth. Everything is done in 32bit float color depth, in an absolute colorspace. Then you can output it to whatever colorspace / color depth you want.

Perhaps even adjustment layers. And perhaps layer masks with intelligent selection tools (take a peep at Nik's U-mask). Is there a chance Gimp will also support native Photoshop plugins and filters, inside a Linux environment? Perhaps I get carried away.

Does anyone see it happening that one day I can set up a complete workflow for photo editing and output on a Linux machine, including color management with hardware-based color profiling of the screen and prints,

You can already do that with ArgyllCMS. There is a nice user interface for it called dispcalGUI (http://dispcalgui.hoech.net/). It supports Spyder4 and ColorHug (http://hughski.com/).

RAW conversion with adjustable highlight and shadow recovery as well as distortion, color aberration etc. correction, reversible editing and image storage, adjustment layers, keystone correction, artistic filters (tonal contrast, etc.), various selective sharpening tools, DAM (digital asset management) with tagging and keywords, camera, printer and paper profiles, conversion to different file formats, etc.?

GIMP is designed as a generic image editor. It sounds like you would probably want something more geared towards a photography workflow. Try looking into Darktable. It can do almost all of that. (http://www.darktable.org/)

[d.a.a.]

Any reason why AMD should be preferred?

Here an old announcement from the Nvidia developer site: "NVIDIA has chaired the industry working group that defines the OpenCL standard since its inception and shipped the world?s first conformant GPU implementation of OpenCL for both Windows and Linux in June 2009."

I've been using Nvidia cards for many years and I'm very happy with their closed-source drivers - in my systems they simply work(ed). I particularly like the long-term support for old GPUs, so I can continue using my ancient graphics adapters with the latest Linux distro.

I'm going to buy a PC and graphics card this week. Is there any good reason I should lean towards AMD/ATI who have had a less than optimal track record - at first no Linux support, now yes, even open source support, but not for all GPUs, old stuff is not being supported, who knows what the next quirk will be?

I'm open to suggestions.

If you're aiming at GPU computing you're better off with AMD, particularly regarding double-precision float point performance (e.g., the Nvidia GTX-680 FP64 performance is 24 times slower than its single-precision performance, whereas for the AMD HD7970 this difference goes down to just four); unless you have enough money to buy the expensive Nvidia Tesla series. I would recommend you the newer AMD GCN scalar architecture (HD7000 family), which are much better/flexible for general purpose computing.

Apart from that, in general AMD tend to support new OpenCL specifications faster than Nvidia.

[Hirager]

Krita (KDE painting program - very good one) developers were paid for brushes. They made them. If someone pays, surely someone will step up to the challenge and work on the PS plugins. However, I have no knowledge about how deeply are those plugins embedded into PS and Windows, so no guarantees.

[AnonymousCoward]

Is there a chance Gimp will also support native Photoshop plugins and filters, inside a Linux environment?

It's open source, so the chance is always there. The probability though is very low from my point of view, since that'd probably need integrating some part of wine (like mplayer does to run dll codecs), and the result then only runs on the platform the ps plugin is for (or run it in qemu?). I don't expect the "official" gimp developers to be interested in that, since it's a lot of work that doesn't benefit gimp itself.