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  • phoronix
    started a topic Mono Developers Go Bye-Bye From Attachmate

    Mono Developers Go Bye-Bye From Attachmate

    Phoronix: Mono Developers Go Bye-Bye From Attachmate

    Attachmate completed their acquisition of Novell last week and turned the assets into the Novell and SUSE business units. This morning the first signs of changes were announced when over one-hundred employees would be losing their jobs as part of the streamlining process. Later on in the day I was then to first break the news -- a rumor at the time -- via my Twitter feed that all of Mono's developers would be losing their positions...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=OTQwMQ

  • tr00don
    replied
    Maybe that's because M$ created some confusion re .NET and Silverlight in Windows 8? But for now it's just speculation. Or perhaps Attachmate know something we don't know? Anyway, it wouldn't make sense to base Windows Phone 7 app development on .NET and wipe it out completely in Windows 8.

    Originally posted by phoronix View Post
    Phoronix: Mono Developers Go Bye-Bye From Attachmate
    all of Mono's developers would be losing their positions...
    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=OTQwMQ

    Leave a comment:


  • JoachimJ
    replied
    @XorEaxEax: Maybe you're right. I was just listing things I tend to depend on, and wasn't really aware of how tightly those preferences knit me to C#/.NET. Actually, I still don't think my requirements are that restrictive per se, but apparently it's a void around C#/.NET.

    Go looks really interesting as a language (I especially like its 'implicit' interfaces), but doesn't seem to be support GUI development that much.

    Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • XorEaxEax
    replied
    Well since your prerequisites were mapped 1:1 with what C# offers I'd say it's extremely unlikely that you'd find another language that suits you. For my own needs (as a C,C++,Python developer) I'm becoming more and more interested in Go. It has some of the things you mentioned but lacks generics which seemed like a deal-breaker for you (although there's been alot of talk concerning future implementation of generics in Go). As always, you as the developer is always the best judge of what language works best for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoachimJ
    replied
    @Znurre: I already ruled out C++.

    @Blackstar: I was assuming Mono/Monodevelop would stagnate from now on. If Mono/Monodevleop stays a viable alternative, I won't be needing to switch from C#, will I?

    Thanks anyway. (I think)

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackStar
    replied
    Originally posted by JoachimJ View Post
    Ok. Trolling aside. What languages/platforms do you recommend one pursue if one is (currently) a C# programmer wanting to write programs for Linux?

    Oh, and the IDE must be cheap or free.

    C#/Monodevelop seemed like a god fit, and I'll miss it if it disappears.
    Boo is another great choice. It's inspired by python and is extremely flexible (you can even create domain-specific languages if you need!) It runs on the Mono runtime and has access to its huge base class library.

    C# generics are closer to Java generics than C++ templates, but with a much more logical implementation. They are very useful but they have limitations (you can't create a generic "Number<T>" like you could in C++, for instance). This is actually a runtime limitation, not a C# one - and Boo works around it by using dynamic code generation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Znurre
    replied
    Originally posted by JoachimJ View Post
    Ok. Trolling aside. What languages/platforms do you recommend one pursue if one is (currently) a C# programmer wanting to write programs for Linux?
    C++/Qt

    A new language/platform for me doesn't even have to be C-like, but it has to:
    Have generics. (Can't decide if I like C++ or C# better in this regard, but I find Java generics horrible.)
    Check
    Have garbage collection/automatic memory management.
    Qt has several smart pointer classes, like QSharedPointer that can delete the referenced object automatically when it goes out of scope and no other QSharedPointer objects are referencing it.
    Have a good base class library. (Implementing your own List<T> is fun. For a while.)
    Check, I always use Qt even if I don't write GUI apps just because of the great base class library.
    Have an IDE with a good UI designer.
    Check, Qt Creator.
    Have an IDE (the same IDE as above, mind you) with refactoring support.
    Check, Qt Creator, although it is not as good as Visual Studio in this regard.

    It's nice if it
    Allows operator overloading. (It is more than syntactic sugar. It helps keep the interface clean)
    Check
    Allows one to control the memory management in the few cases one needs to.
    Check

    Oh, and the IDE must be cheap or free.
    Check
    Replies in bold.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoachimJ
    replied
    Ok. Trolling aside. What languages/platforms do you recommend one pursue if one is (currently) a C# programmer wanting to write programs for Linux?

    I've got 22 years of experience writing software professionally. I've tried and ruled out C, C++ and Java a long time (10+) years ago. IIRC, with C, I miss too many modern language features. Out of necessity (work) I used to be pretty good at C++, but I never *really* got into it, partly I think because I hated the way some things seemed to be bolted on. At the time, I liked Eiffel better, but that obviously never took off. Java seems to go too far in its ideology to be competitive, and could probably use a compatibility break in order to advance. But that's just my guess.

    I checked out Vala because of a comment in this thread, and it looked pretty nice, until I saw its generics.

    A new language/platform for me doesn't even have to be C-like, but it has to:
    Have generics. (Can't decide if I like C++ or C# better in this regard, but I find Java generics horrible.)
    Have garbage collection/automatic memory management.
    Have a good base class library. (Implementing your own List<T> is fun. For a while.)
    Have an IDE with a good UI designer.
    Have an IDE (the same IDE as above, mind you) with refactoring support.

    It's nice if it
    Allows operator overloading. (It is more than syntactic sugar. It helps keep the interface clean)
    Allows one to control the memory management in the few cases one needs to.

    Oh, and the IDE must be cheap or free.

    C#/Monodevelop seemed like a god fit, and I'll miss it if it disappears.

    Leave a comment:


  • kraftman
    replied
    Originally posted by ciplogic View Post
    Congratulations for your points and for your contributions! I'm glad you do it more than everything!
    As for me, Mono needs to be compatible to one degree. Like using another non-mainstream compiler, you expect the same results. As is GCJ with Java JRE, or FreePascal compared with Delphi, CLang and LLVM against GCC, as HTML 5 and it's JavaScript to work similarly accross browser. It does not need to be bug-to-bug compatible, but expected behavior. As o today I think the mainstream view of users of Mono. As for wanting to port the desktop application I work on from .Net to Mono, even if Mono supposedly will offer a solution to really run all the fluff needed, I will not do it a straight forward. Not cause of Namespace Patents attack, if this may be the issue for you. But because will look alien like: it uses Ribbon which looks alien on Linux, and it is not fun to look to unfinished Google SoC solutions, it uses WPF animations that depends on video card mature drivers (WPF uses pixel shaders, and Silverlight subset in it have a harder setup to start with). I will likely start with a Gtk# or Qt application and I would embed Mono to expose same functionality. Look&feel is an important matter for an user and I don't want to find all bugs and inconsistencies of every platform, but to use the best frameworks that a specific solution require.
    I've told you in other thread cases I use Mono, in general for small tool development and to deploy tools that are well made to run platform independent (in my case to remove Java dependency to move a rendering component. Luckily SunFlow renderer works with IKVM, so will work as packaged by default in Ubuntu and Windows with no extra setup, OS X will need it some settings though).
    I want to thank you for comprehensive responses and for being sane and fair. It's a pleasure to talk to such person and I can educate myself more on the topic. Thanks to you I can look at this from a different perspective. I also apologize for being harsh. If persons who are fair with others will drive mono development it has much brighter future. Icaza has failed at this, because his responses weren't straight, but there were too much PR thus he cannot be trusted.

    Leave a comment:


  • ciplogic
    replied
    Originally posted by kraftman View Post
    Last time some mono fanboys were saying mono is a .Net for Linux, so this is what I was basing on. If it's not that way it doesn't matter overall. It puts it into probably even worse situation, because it won't be so 'attractive' for Windows .Net programmers.

    https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/11467
    Congratulations for your points and for your contributions! I'm glad you do it more than everything!
    As for me, Mono needs to be compatible to one degree. Like using another non-mainstream compiler, you expect the same results. As is GCJ with Java JRE, or FreePascal compared with Delphi, CLang and LLVM against GCC, as HTML 5 and it's JavaScript to work similarly accross browser. It does not need to be bug-to-bug compatible, but expected behavior. As o today I think the mainstream view of users of Mono. As for wanting to port the desktop application I work on from .Net to Mono, even if Mono supposedly will offer a solution to really run all the fluff needed, I will not do it a straight forward. Not cause of Namespace Patents attack, if this may be the issue for you. But because will look alien like: it uses Ribbon which looks alien on Linux, and it is not fun to look to unfinished Google SoC solutions, it uses WPF animations that depends on video card mature drivers (WPF uses pixel shaders, and Silverlight subset in it have a harder setup to start with). I will likely start with a Gtk# or Qt application and I would embed Mono to expose same functionality. Look&feel is an important matter for an user and I don't want to find all bugs and inconsistencies of every platform, but to use the best frameworks that a specific solution require.
    I've told you in other thread cases I use Mono, in general for small tool development and to deploy tools that are well made to run platform independent (in my case to remove Java dependency to move a rendering component. Luckily SunFlow renderer works with IKVM, so will work as packaged by default in Ubuntu and Windows with no extra setup, OS X will need it some settings though).

    Leave a comment:

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