Linux 2.6.34-rc2 Kernel Released

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • mether
    replied
    Hi,

    To answer the question requires a quick crash course on Fedora governance. Fedora has a board where the majority members are community elected, some members are appointed by Red Hat and a Fedora engineering steering committee which is fully elected.

    If you read the link I posted, you will see that it has a target audience definition that is part of it. So what you suggest has already been done.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yfrwlf
    replied
    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    Hi

    Few different points:

    * Not everyone sees that bug. It doesn't happen in all cases. Hence the priority is low

    * An updated image has already been released

    * Every mainstream distribution is already using PackageKit or in the process of moving over. So switching distros is hardly the solution

    * Just in case, you were not aware, Fedora has had extensive discussions recently about release and QA policies.



    * It isn't just Red Hat. Fedora at this point is largely volunteer driven.

    Hope that helps.
    That's great, thanks for the info. Red Hat is at the tippy top of the decision making though, is it not? Maybe they need to redefine their goals a bit or something. All the luck in the world to Red Hat, RHEL, the community, and Fedora though regardless of who is driving its goals. I'd like to see them do very well, and hope Fedora can do better in the future.

    I saw the update error 2 out of 2 times I installed F12, so in any case I'm glad they got it fixed. ^^

    Leave a comment:


  • mether
    replied
    Hi

    Few different points:

    * Not everyone sees that bug. It doesn't happen in all cases. Hence the priority is low

    * An updated image has already been released

    * Every mainstream distribution is already using PackageKit or in the process of moving over. So switching distros is hardly the solution

    * Just in case, you were not aware, Fedora has had extensive discussions recently about release and QA policies.



    * It isn't just Red Hat. Fedora at this point is largely volunteer driven.

    Hope that helps.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yfrwlf
    replied
    Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    There was a bug in PackageKit and unfortunately it is a bit of chicken and egg problem because you wouldn't be able to get the fix without updating first.
    The workaround in that case is simply running yum update in the command line.
    Then you might want to push such a critical update into the iso, but I'm sure the reason for that is those in charge thought doing a yum update was easy enough so there was no need. It is an incredibly silly and easy fix yes, I know how to use yum and rpm believe me, but that's not the point. Such an issue may be seen as a simple problem by those managing Fedora, but it's a pretty damn large deal breaker for those average computer users looking for an easy desktop to use. It's a total turnoff, it might as well pop up with a message that says "Install Ubuntu instead!".

    Because of polishing issues like this, it's fair to say Red Hat isn't as good as Canonical at delivering a desktop for average computer users, whatever the reasons. That's how things will remain until policies and practices for those who manage Fedora change.

    I really like Red Hat for many reasons as well, you and the community have all made some great GUI apps (and of course all the awesome server contributions) that desktop users appreciate which do a lot in filling some of the gaps in the Linux desktop experience. It's too bad then that Fedora management can't get its act together, define tighter goals, and make sure their desktop is more usable and average user-friendly so that it can better compete with Ubuntu on the desktop end.

    Again, harder to do since you're more bleeding edge? No doubt, but I still think it's doable...or maybe work out a different release schedule scheme so that things are a bit more stable come time for the final release. Until then, like I said, it'll stay a developers desktop. Great if you want to help debug and contribute, not great if you want to just use it.

    Leave a comment:


  • mether
    replied
    Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post
    I still can't believe Fedora 12. Download a fresh ISO, install it, try to do system updates, and it errors out and will not and cannot install them. I'm sure there's a workaround, but I just don't have the patience for it. Fedora has always had problems with upgrades breaking shit, be it how they manage their repository or difficulties with the RPM packaging system, it's always been a chaotic nightmare, which is why I switched to Debian and derivatives.

    Yeah, I know Fedora is more bleeding edge, but come on. I'd expect more crashes, but not *total breakage*. I think Fedora will forever be a "development distro" in my mind, not suitable for normal use. Like to take a peek now and then to find out about new features coming down the pipe, but that's about it.
    There was a bug in PackageKit and unfortunately it is a bit of chicken and egg problem because you wouldn't be able to get the fix without updating first.
    The workaround in that case is simply running yum update in the command line.

    Leave a comment:


  • mether
    replied
    Originally posted by cl333r View Post
    +1
    Exactly because of this I couldn't stay with Fedora.
    On a different note, this is a rare case where Red Hat is (slowly but steadily) loosing. Not cause it can't compete but cause it suffers from split personality. On one hand its bosses only see value in the server market, on the other hand other Red Hat folks understand that Ubuntu might get almost unbeatable because of its huge desktop success and the network effect which comes along, and the network effect is a beast that's often almost impossible to crack - that's biggest the long term threat.

    So what happens is Red Hat is doing the hard work on kernel, video and other stuff and Canonical is smart enough to put in the missing (desktop) bits and arrange them to ride the tide set up by Red Hat. Not exactly accurate statements but you get the basic points.
    Far from accurate I think. Red Hat continues to invest very heavily on a wide spectrum of components including several desktop technologies. You might want to refer to

    Leave a comment:


  • Ragas
    replied
    Originally posted by cl333r View Post
    and the network effect is a beast that's often almost impossible to crack - that's biggest the long term threat.
    Oh come on! what network effect?!

    The documentation of other Distros like Arch or Gentoo is way better. There is virtually no Software available that you wouldn't get on other Distros (except the stuff nobody wants like Ununtu One). The Packetmanager is in many points inferior to others (just try to delete Gnome). The stability isn't that great and it's even more bad when you upgrade between different Ubuntu Versions.
    What I like in Ubuntu is that it is made totally stupid-safe that's why I install Ubuntu on every computer which is owned by a person with bad computer knowledge.


    I think in time there will come another Distro and everyone will start using it.
    If you can tell me what exactly this network effect is then I might believe you.

    Leave a comment:


  • cl333r
    replied
    Originally posted by Yfrwlf View Post
    I still can't believe Fedora 12. Download a fresh ISO, install it, try to do system updates, and it errors out and will not and cannot install them. I'm sure there's a workaround, but I just don't have the patience for it. Fedora has always had problems with upgrades breaking shit, be it how they manage their repository or difficulties with the RPM packaging system, it's always been a chaotic nightmare, which is why I switched to Debian and derivatives.

    Yeah, I know Fedora is more bleeding edge, but come on. I'd expect more crashes, but not *total breakage*. I think Fedora will forever be a "development distro" in my mind, not suitable for normal use. Like to take a peek now and then to find out about new features coming down the pipe, but that's about it.
    +1
    Exactly because of this I couldn't stay with Fedora.
    On a different note, this is a rare case where Red Hat is (slowly but steadily) loosing. Not cause it can't compete but cause it suffers from split personality. On one hand its bosses only see value in the server market, on the other hand other Red Hat folks understand that Ubuntu might get almost unbeatable because of its huge desktop success and the network effect which comes along, and the network effect is a beast that's often almost impossible to crack - that's biggest the long term threat.

    So what happens is Red Hat is doing the hard work on kernel, video and other stuff and Canonical is smart enough to put in the missing (desktop) bits and arrange them to ride the tide set up by Red Hat. Not exactly accurate statements but you get the basic points.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yfrwlf
    replied
    Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post
    Most likely that's the case
    I still can't believe Fedora 12. Download a fresh ISO, install it, try to do system updates, and it errors out and will not and cannot install them. I'm sure there's a workaround, but I just don't have the patience for it. Fedora has always had problems with upgrades breaking shit, be it how they manage their repository or difficulties with the RPM packaging system, it's always been a chaotic nightmare, which is why I switched to Debian and derivatives.

    Yeah, I know Fedora is more bleeding edge, but come on. I'd expect more crashes, but not *total breakage*. I think Fedora will forever be a "development distro" in my mind, not suitable for normal use. Like to take a peek now and then to find out about new features coming down the pipe, but that's about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeepDayze
    replied
    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    He's reinstalling Fedora again.
    Most likely that's the case

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X