systemd 257 Debuts With systemd-keyutil & systemd-sbsign Tools, Other Improvements

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  • lowflyer
    replied
    Originally posted by access View Post
    If systemd is "a crap load of shit" than what are all those other init systems that are worse? Distro maintainers probably don't like having to fiddle with broken shell scripts and reinventing the wheel for the 1000th time; systemd solves that problem. DE developers got a consistent and sane way to handle a lot of session management and other plumbing instead of hacky shell scripts. Systemd provides something that the people who build and maintain stuff need and that is why it is popular.

    Providing endless permutations of choice is a huge burden, especially for such intricate and complex functionality, so I fully understand why it is not provided.
    You may have found a point here. There are not that many init systems that are worse than systemd. Some people indeed claim that SysVinit is worse than systemd. Although I don't completely agree with you, I'll grant you that point. I personally would expect Distro maintainers to understand a little bit of scripting. But that's apparently too much to ask these days. Systemd solves that non-problem by taking it out of the hands of Distro maintainers. Mediocre solution - but it apparently works.

    By the way: systemd can also use scripts. Doesn't that make systemd worse than systemd?

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  • access
    replied
    If systemd is "a crap load of shit" than what are all those other init systems that are worse? Distro maintainers probably don't like having to fiddle with broken shell scripts and reinventing the wheel for the 1000th time; systemd solves that problem. DE developers got a consistent and sane way to handle a lot of session management and other plumbing instead of hacky shell scripts. Systemd provides something that the people who build and maintain stuff need and that is why it is popular.

    Providing endless permutations of choice is a huge burden, especially for such intricate and complex functionality, so I fully understand why it is not provided.

    Leave a comment:


  • lowflyer
    replied
    Originally posted by intelfx View Post

    OK.

    If systemd is that bad, why would almost everyone switch to it instead?
    ​
    Your assumption is wrong. It is not that "everyone switched to it". Most of the users never had any say in that. It was the distributions (Debian on the forefront) that did the change for them. So any "normal" user "was switched over" - I would say in most of the cases - without even their knowledge.

    To remain without systemd requires additional research. (well, thinking actually hurts). At the beginning - after Debian surprised the whole community with their decision to abandon the decades-old pragmatic approach of "allowing the user to select" - there were a few dry years where literally no usable distribution would let the user choose. (Not counting the ones where you literally have to puzzle your OS together)

    I would say there are two main reasons for the proliferation of systemd:
    1. The tendency of most users sticking with the distro they know
    2. The swift concerted effort of all main linux distributions to push that change down the throat of their users
    Fortunately times have changed and more distros have become more sane. More and more people also realize what kind of a crapload of shit this systemd is.

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  • mos87
    replied
    Originally posted by caligula View Post
    If systemd is that bad, why would everyone switch to it instead?
    Insane idea that a common init system instead of a museum choke full of handcrafted shell scripts might be beneficial

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  • shmerl
    replied
    Originally posted by mos87 View Post
    Yep​
    That's supposed to mean something?

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  • mos87
    replied
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    What's the story with systemd
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    some recent update in Debian testing started blocking in the middle of the boot
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    story with systemd
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    Debian testing
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    systemd
    Yep.
    ​

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  • intelfx
    replied
    Originally posted by lowflyer View Post

    Well, I did not. "Everyone" is not me. And I'm not alone, there are more people out there that are not "everyone". It should be obvious by reading this thread.
    OK.

    If systemd is that bad, why would almost everyone switch to it instead?
    ​
    Last edited by intelfx; 13 December 2024, 01:28 AM.

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  • lowflyer
    replied
    Originally posted by caligula View Post
    If systemd is that bad, why would everyone switch to it instead?
    Well, I did not. "Everyone" is not me. And I'm not alone, there are more people out there that are not "everyone". It should be obvious by reading this thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • F.Ultra
    replied
    Originally posted by egorfine View Post

    This is extremely on-brand with systemd folks. I would be surprised if they have actually used one of the mainstream C implementations of JSON.
    the problem with mainstream JSON parsers is that they handle numbers as floats so it's not possible to use 64-bit integers (if you do, you have to encode them as strings and not as numbers). Plus that it is easier to make a parser secure for random input if the format that you have to decode is tightly specified vs a general JSON parser that have to support all kinds of schemas.

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  • F.Ultra
    replied
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post

    Yep, that's the one and I just tested - it does indeed react to any key. Really strange one. What do you think it can be?

    Analyzing the dmesg, I see that delay happens around this:

    Code:
    systemd[1]: Inserted module 'autofs4'
    UPDATE:

    I think I found the culprit: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/35499
    my bad, looks like they indeed integrate with the console.

    Leave a comment:

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