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New Linux Kernel Patches Begin Plumbing Rust Support Into Bcachefs Driver

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  • #71
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    About it being inconsequential to users? Look at marios' posts. It does affect users in a negative way, even if they don't code a single line of Rust.
    It's either inconsequential or it affects users. It can't be both at the same time.

    And alleged reason it affects users is actually circular logic: I don't want to install rustc and I don't want to use pre-compiled kernels, therefore Rust is bad, because eventually I'm going to have to install it. This is "you broke my workflow" level of trolling.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by CommunityMember View Post
      Individuals have always had the ability to hobble themselves by not installing recent toolchains and choosing to run older kernels and apps that support their existing tools, or to choose to rewrite code in ways to meet their own preferences. That continues to be their right. Their rights to do their own thing should not be interpreted such that their rights imply others have to agree to do what they want.
      Nobody gives a shit about their "rights". But let's use your viewpoint. Individuals also have the right and ability to complain of changes they don't like that will negatively impact them in the future.

      That doesn't make them trolls, it makes YOU a troll for calling them such.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
        It's either inconsequential or it affects users. It can't be both at the same time.
        That's why he disagreed with it being inconsequential?

        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
        And alleged reason it affects users is actually circular logic: I don't want to install rustc and I don't want to use pre-compiled kernels, therefore Rust is bad, because eventually I'm going to have to install it. This is "you broke my workflow" level of trolling.
        Since when is "you broke my workflow" trolling? Now, thinking that it is trolling is actually trolling. aka you.

        Imagine thinking I won't complain about UI changes or anything that breaks my workflow since clowns will label me as a troll. Grow the fuck up.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post
          They're saying they lost interest in this project because the maintainers decided to transition it to Rust which is apparently something that Marios thinks they should have a say in because they made the decision to never use a pre-compiled version of the kernel and they don't want to have rustc on their computer.

          Its a variation of the the response you see whenever support for some hardware that hasn't been produced in 25 years gets removed from the kernel. Someone who still runs an Itanium machine in their garage will complain like they're being harmed by the decision even though:
          • they don't maintain the code they're complaining about
          • It only effects them because they opted to continue using old hardware (in this case always pre-compile the kernel)
          • they're not actually losing any actual functionality
          Since when is saying something like "I lost interested because they dropped support for X" trolling? Please stop this is beyond cringe at this point.

          If you really wanted to be a smartass you'd reply with something like "Ok but who asked?" to him. At least it doesn't put a false label but does show your stance on it.

          Calling him a troll shows your maturity level.

          Comment


          • #75
            Originally posted by bug77 View Post

            It's either inconsequential or it affects users. It can't be both at the same time.

            And alleged reason it affects users is actually circular logic: I don't want to install rustc and I don't want to use pre-compiled kernels, therefore Rust is bad, because eventually I'm going to have to install it. This is "you broke my workflow" level of trolling.
            Yes, I do not want to install rustc, just because someone decided to use Rust. It does affect me in a negative way. It might be a minor problem, but it is an existing problem. However, if you read my above comment, you will see that the problem is even deeper than me not wanting to install rustc. in any case, I completely agree with the last sentence of Weasel's post​. Remember, it is not a new project that required Rust from the beginning. Rust is a dependency added later, on a project that was not necessarily initially expected to require Rust. This certainly breaks stuff, makes some people unhappy and opens the floodgates for even more severe breakages (like requiring Rust for core parts of the kernel as opposed to just some fs).

            It is true that the developer is free to give Rust a try, even at a project that had no Rust dependencies in the past. But we are also free to hate this decision, express our hatred for that and steer clear of their work. Or we can accept this decision, install rustc, forget about having a pure gcc kernel or even a kernel compiled with the latest llvm and lto, and roll with that. I chose to inform everyone I can of my decision which is the former. Is that trolling?

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            • #76
              Originally posted by marios View Post
              Yes, I do not want to install rustc, just because someone decided to use Rust.
              You probably have many compilers on your systems, e.g. for Python, Perl, C, C++ or even Java, Ruby and so on.
              Why is just an additional one now such a problem?
              And, yes, if you decide to uninstall the Python compiler - you are going to miss out.
              Same for projects that use a different compiler you decide to not install.
              I fail to see the problem here.
              And specifically for Rust I have several projects checked out that just happen to use that compiler. So what? Do I delete all those? Heck, no, same as Python programs run here because that compiler is on my systems.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                Since when is "you broke my workflow" trolling? Now, thinking that it is trolling is actually trolling. aka you.

                Imagine thinking I won't complain about UI changes or anything that breaks my workflow since clowns will label me as a troll. Grow the fuck up.
                Complaining about that on the developer forums of said product would be feedback. Complaining about it on a thread on Phoronix, would be a point of view. Saying it is wrong because it affects you in the same Phoronix forum, that's trolling.

                And thanks for the nice words, that's usually a sign you feel you're on solid ground wrt your arguments.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by reba View Post

                  You probably have many compilers on your systems, e.g. for Python, Perl, C, C++ or even Java, Ruby and so on.
                  Why is just an additional one now such a problem?
                  And, yes, if you decide to uninstall the Python compiler - you are going to miss out.
                  Same for projects that use a different compiler you decide to not install.
                  I fail to see the problem here.
                  And specifically for Rust I have several projects checked out that just happen to use that compiler. So what? Do I delete all those? Heck, no, same as Python programs run here because that compiler is on my systems.
                  Initially, Python does not use a compiler but an interpreter. With that out of the way, do i like being forced to use the Python interpreter? No, but I can decide in favor or against using it based on the scripts that I might want to run. For example, every computer I use has python. My Gentoo desktops even have rustc, because of Firefox. On the other hand I have nowhere installed java, because there is no java app worth having. You don't get the point though.

                  I never said installing rustc is a big problem. I said that it might be a small problem, but it is a problem. Always adding a dependency that did not exist, is a problem. Do the benefits for the developer outweigh the problems for some users? Maybe for some cases. Do they for bcachefs Rust (or Rust for any part of the kernel in this regard)? I don't think so, since it causes the extra complications that I described above.

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by marios View Post

                    Yes, I do not want to install rustc, just because someone decided to use Rust. It does affect me in a negative way. It might be a minor problem, but it is an existing problem. However, if you read my above comment, you will see that the problem is even deeper than me not wanting to install rustc. in any case, I completely agree with the last sentence of Weasel's post​. Remember, it is not a new project that required Rust from the beginning. Rust is a dependency added later, on a project that was not necessarily initially expected to require Rust. This certainly breaks stuff, makes some people unhappy and opens the floodgates for even more severe breakages (like requiring Rust for core parts of the kernel as opposed to just some fs).

                    It is true that the developer is free to give Rust a try, even at a project that had no Rust dependencies in the past. But we are also free to hate this decision, express our hatred for that and steer clear of their work. Or we can accept this decision, install rustc, forget about having a pure gcc kernel or even a kernel compiled with the latest llvm and lto, and roll with that. I chose to inform everyone I can of my decision which is the former. Is that trolling?
                    Only for the select few that feel there's a reason not to install rustc. Feel free to open a separate thread to discuss this. Better yet, open a reddit channel. See how many followers you can attract.

                    Comment


                    • #80
                      Originally posted by bug77 View Post

                      Only for the select few that feel there's a reason not to install rustc. Feel free to open a separate thread to discuss this. Better yet, open a reddit channel. See how many followers you can attract.
                      Nah, I would rather just give you the same treatment I give to mdedetrich. I will completely ignore your pitiful existence unless you quote me directly. In which case I will take that you are not discussing in good faith and answer accordingly. I propose you to do the same for my comments.

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