Power Management Bugs Hold Up Some Linux Laptops Due To Regulatory Requirements

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  • OmniNegro
    Phoronix Member
    • Dec 2021
    • 57

    #11
    Anyone remember back when vehicular emissions were facing "new emissions standards? They would supposedly reduce pollution from cars by 50% overnight. Yeah sure. What happened? Nothing at all. Cars became more expensive, big oil used this as an excuse to raise the prices, and the pollution remained unchanged, because they wrote in loopholes for old big trucks that carried "essential" goods.

    Now they are changing standards for laptops of all things? A hundred laptops does not use as much power as a single big server, but they are the focus. Why? Because MS wants to pretend they matter and they have a solution to the problem.

    MS never did matter, and every solution they have ever came up with has in turn made the problem worse. Usually in an unexpected way.

    So they replace S3 with "SS and pretend it changes anything, while pretending not to know it allows the system to execute code you did not approve, nor install. Give this a few years and SS will be globally banned because of the rootkits it forces on us.

    MS is evil, and the shitware they make forces more shitware to install itself. This is a recipe for disaster.

    Comment

    • microcode
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2013
      • 2373

      #12
      Originally posted by caligula View Post
      Ah, the "modern" sleep. Another piece of shit feature that won't improve anything at all.
      It's a perfectly fine thing, and used a certain way S0 can have exactly the same power cost as S3. On Windows, it is down to the specific background tasks being run. LTT thinks it's the policy for running windows update in S0 when plugged in, persisting after the charger is removed (because they're running windows update, but not whatever implements the power management policy).

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      • QwertyChouskie
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2017
        • 637

        #13
        Originally posted by archkde View Post

        Certainly not. "Smart sleep" is just a crappy substitute for S3 (aka suspend to RAM).
        "Smart Sleep"/s2idle could actually be great for the Steam Deck to allow it to download game updates while sleeping but plugged in. Having to have the device fully on to download new games/game updates/updated shader caches/OS updates/etc is a complaint I see from time to time.

        Obviously, the Windows implementation is a buggy mess and should be avoided if possible, but there's no reason it couldn't bring a benefit to Linux devices if done actually correctly.

        Comment

        • QwertyChouskie
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2017
          • 637

          #14
          Originally posted by OmniNegro View Post
          Anyone remember back when vehicular emissions were facing "new emissions standards? They would supposedly reduce pollution from cars by 50% overnight. Yeah sure. What happened? Nothing at all. Cars became more expensive, big oil used this as an excuse to raise the prices, and the pollution remained unchanged, because they wrote in loopholes for old big trucks that carried "essential" goods.

          Now they are changing standards for laptops of all things? A hundred laptops does not use as much power as a single big server, but they are the focus. Why? Because MS wants to pretend they matter and they have a solution to the problem.

          MS never did matter, and every solution they have ever came up with has in turn made the problem worse. Usually in an unexpected way.

          So they replace S3 with "SS and pretend it changes anything, while pretending not to know it allows the system to execute code you did not approve, nor install. Give this a few years and SS will be globally banned because of the rootkits it forces on us.

          MS is evil, and the shitware they make forces more shitware to install itself. This is a recipe for disaster.
          This fix for the device pulling more power when it should at S5 (a.k.a. shutdown) has nothing to do with the S3 vs S2idle situation.

          Comment

          • OmniNegro
            Phoronix Member
            • Dec 2021
            • 57

            #15
            Originally posted by QwertyChouskie View Post

            This fix for the device pulling more power when it should at S5 (a.k.a. shutdown) has nothing to do with the S3 vs S2idle situation.
            I do not believe anyone at the time of my post had mentioned S2 at all. But I did make a mistake because I clearly need new glasses. I was reading S5 as SS.

            Comment

            • QwertyChouskie
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2017
              • 637

              #16
              Originally posted by OmniNegro View Post
              I do not believe anyone at the time of my post had mentioned S2 at all. But I did make a mistake because I clearly need new glasses. I was reading S5 as SS.
              s2idle (suspend-to-idle) means the same as the S0 power state, which is used for "Connected Standby"/"Smart Sleep"/"Modern Suspend". Yeah, it's confusing lol

              Comment

              • oiaohm
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2017
                • 8461

                #17
                Originally posted by rclark View Post
                How? So what if a laptop uses more energy. Should be non of the governments business to 'compare' against M$ software running on it. Seems weird to me anyway! Not saying there is a bug... but don't understand government 'regs' for this.
                There is a reason for this. When you have many millions of devices all that users think are powered off but are drawing more power than they should this makes a countries power grid cost the country more.

                Countries wanting to move over to wind and solar and the like don't want power ineffective devices.

                EU particular has found forcing proper S5 on devices have cut over 15% of electrical requirement out the power grid. This is not a small cost.

                There has been a problem with Linux laptops and power usage where its been near enough is good enough user can put up with 10 to 50% less battery life because the laptops don't power off correctly.

                Yes companies provide token Linux laptops and go see this laptop will give you poor battery life pay the extra for Microsoft windows... Yes upsell.

                Lot of ways you could say this with power management on computers is like road worthyness laws for cars. Yes road worthyness laws have it in most countries that cars have to be up to a particular standard no tricks to be sold.

                Think about it S5 power management not working correctly is very much like having a car who handbrake does not work correctly so it going to slowly but sure rolling down that slope you just parked it on. Yes there is real world slope test for cars. This S5 test is here is a power draw meter the laptop in S5 should be drawing less than X and if it no its not correctly turned off/applying brakes.

                Comment

                • Delta_44
                  Phoronix Member
                  • Jul 2022
                  • 65

                  #18
                  Originally posted by archkde View Post
                  Wow, shutdown not working properly is certainly a new one.
                  I actually have this problem since kernel version 6 (if I remember correctly) on my MSI laptop and I still haven't figured it out.

                  Comment

                  • archkde
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2019
                    • 685

                    #19
                    Originally posted by NotMine999 View Post
                    Gotta luv it when government regulations ruin things for the rest of us.
                    Ruin things how exactly? Significant power usage when the device should be turned off leads to needless battery discharge, maybe the battery is already defective when you buy it then. The bug will be fixed and then the device can ship.

                    Comment

                    • archkde
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2019
                      • 685

                      #20
                      Originally posted by QwertyChouskie View Post

                      "Smart Sleep"/s2idle could actually be great for the Steam Deck to allow it to download game updates while sleeping but plugged in. Having to have the device fully on to download new games/game updates/updated shader caches/OS updates/etc is a complaint I see from time to time.
                      I can certainly see s2idle being a great option, but I don't want it as an unconditional S3 substitute.

                      Comment

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