AMD P-State EPP Patches Spun An 8th Time For Helping Out Linux Performance & Efficiency

[mdedetrich]

My amd ryzen 7 5700u makes 9400 points in cinebench r23 even m2 cant beat that, using pstate driver in a cheap lenovo laptop (600 euros)

This is ignoring the fact that the m2 in the Air is only passively cooled where as almost every laptop with a 5700u/6850u has fan cooling. If you want to do a more like to like comparison, disable the fan in your AMD laptop

Also arguably in terms of segmentation, the m1 pro is a lot closer to a 5700u rather than a M2

[Anux]

If you want to do a more like to like comparison, disable the fan in your AMD laptop

Thats not like to like, you're comparing a passiv designed cooling system with an active one and take the largest part from the active cooling away, the M1 would also be slower with a crippled cooling solution.

[mdedetrich]

Thats not like to like, you're comparing a passiv designed cooling system with an active one and take the largest part from the active cooling away, the M1 would also be slower with a crippled cooling solution.

I own an M1 and even though the machine has fans, they have only turned on twice in the lifetime of me using the machine and that was when running JDK 8 under Rosetta.

I can completely turn off the fans and for all I am concerened it would have zero impact, the new macs are configured to only turn on fans on extreme scenarios.

And do note that I am not a trivial user, I am a programmer and a lot of my time is spent stressing the CPU with either multicore compiling or benchmarking.

[Anux]

Yes that's what I said. The M1 has a cooling system that is designed to work without a fan, the fan is only for emergency. Passive cooling has much more cooling area and more space between finns. A fan based cooling has many tightly spaced finns and doesn't work well without active cooling.

[mdedetrich]

Yes that's what I said. The M1 has a cooling system that is designed to work without a fan, the fan is only for emergency. Passive cooling has much more cooling area and more space between finns. A fan based cooling has many tightly spaced finns and doesn't work well without active cooling.

I would say that with how much heat modern CPU's produce, any well built chassis is also designed to handle the passive cooling even if the chassis also happens to have fan/s. Any cooling is desirable and if you look at teardowns of the m1 you won't see anything special regarding "being built for passive cooling" and its not too much difference for Intel/AMD based laptops. The M1 doesn't have alien level engineering to take heat out of the CPU passively, its just a bog standard cold plate design. There are a lot of Intel/AMD laptops that have much better chassis for passive cooling compared to the M1.

The reason why Apple only turns on the fan in emergency cases is

1. They can get away with it due to how ridiculously efficient the chips are
2. They are optimizing for noise rather than top performance, which for a laptop has merit.

[reba]

I would say that with how much heat modern CPU's produce, any well built chassis is also designed to handle the passive cooling even if the chassis also happens to have fan/s. Any cooling is desirable and if you look at teardowns of the m1 you won't see anything special regarding "being built for passive cooling" and its not too much difference for Intel/AMD based laptops. The M1 doesn't have alien level engineering to take heat out of the CPU passively, its just a bog standard cold plate design. There are a lot of Intel/AMD laptops that have much better chassis for passive cooling compared to the M1.

The reason why Apple only turns on the fan in emergency cases is

1. They can get away with it due to how ridiculously efficient the chips are
2. They are optimizing for noise rather than top performance, which for a laptop has merit.

3. They earn extra money when customers have to have their burned computers get repaired because the fans kick in very late at temperatures above 90 °C

[mdedetrich]

3. They earn extra money when customers have to have their burned computers get repaired because the fans kick in very late at temperatures above 90 °C

Yeah im gonna call BS on this, I regularly stress all cores and I have monitor that shows temps. This doesn't happen with the newest ARM based macs.

[Anux]

Yeah im gonna call BS on this, I regularly stress all cores and I have monitor that shows temps. This doesn't happen with the newest ARM based macs.

Maybe you're a lucky one with better thermal paste application? It seems to be the normal behavior: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...1-max.2320100/

I don't think those temps are really a problem, Intel and AMD also go that high. More temp difference means better cooling.

[mdedetrich]

Maybe you're a lucky one with better thermal paste application? It seems to be the normal behavior: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...1-max.2320100/

I don't think those temps are really a problem, Intel and AMD also go that high. More temp difference means better cooling.

So depending on the chip, they are rated to go as high as 90-100 degrees so this usually isn't a problem. Heck, AMD's newest 7000x generation CPU's will deliberately pull as much power as possible until they hit 90 degrees and with the M1's they are by default tuned to get away with as much passive cooling as possible and then turn on fans which means the fans will typically only kick in once the chip starts roughly hitting 90. It is also possible to tune this if you don't like the behavior.

Its also important to distinguish between one off quality issues (which every commodity laptop manufacturer has) compared to persistent problems. I have a 14" M1 Pro and don't have these issues at all, and I am not what is considered an average Joe user.

The video in the thread you linked is also pretty old, they may have already fixed this problematic behavior (I only got m1 M1 pro like half a year ago)

[Anux]

So depending on the chip, they are rated to go as high as 90-100 degrees so this usually isn't a problem. Heck, AMD's newest 7000x generation CPU's will deliberately pull as much power as possible until they hit 90 degrees and with the M1's they are by default tuned to get away with as much passive cooling as possible and then turn on fans which means the fans will typically only kick in once the chip starts roughly hitting 90. It is also possible to tune this if you don't like the behavior.

That's what I just said?

The video in the thread you linked is also pretty old, they may have already fixed this problematic behavior (I only got m1 M1 pro like half a year ago)

Yes hopefully but if you take a look at their history and how they shipped generations of defect by design keyboards while blaming the user ...