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Bcachefs Might Be Ready For Upstreaming In Linux This Year

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  • LinAdmin
    replied
    Originally posted by lyamc View Post
    I've been using bcachefs since around 2018. The only problems I've run into were either fixed that day, or were caused by me not upgrading the filesystem versions properly. If anyone wants some quick and dirty tests I think I can find an SSD lying around.

    IMO the biggest missing feature right now is scrubbing: https://bcachefs.org/bcachefs-princi...-operation.pdf
    image_1866.png
    Not only scrubbing is missing, but also automatic repair in case any reading detects a mismatch of crc.

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  • LinAdmin
    replied
    Originally posted by darkbasic View Post

    It depends on the reason: if they had not been fixed because a major rewrite of some related subsystem is planned that would make sense in an experimental fs.
    IMHO the author was more interested in self-fulfillment...

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  • LinAdmin
    replied
    Originally posted by Jannik2099 View Post
    There are still a bunch of severe bugs in bcache that haven't been fixed for years, anyone jumping on bcachefs straight away is just asking to repeat the early btrfs experience.

    It's a single dev, working on a filesystem with about as many features as ZFS - calm your expectations
    I do not understand why he started snapshots before the code repairing faulty sectors of Raid-1 and for scubbing was perfectly realized.

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  • Draget
    replied
    I was an early adopter of BTRFS (and ZFS for that matter, back to ZoL Fuse) for years and have been burned several times. Most things worked really well and perfect as long as the environment was as expected. But actually coming across flaky hardware, memory errors, end-of-space situations, upgrades etc. it turned out to be very fragile and tend to randomly explode.

    Even right now on my ECC-backed, enterprise-disk homeserver I have two old btrfs disks that seemed have a broken free disk space cache, not fixed by a scrub.

    Don't get me wrong, BTRFS is a really awesome filesystem and it has come a long way. But it takes time and some battlescars for a filesystem to prove itself. Things the dev simply does not come across in their setup. I am really looking forward to play more with bcachefs and it being included in the kernel, but it will take years before I seriously trust critical data to it.

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  • vladpetric
    replied
    Originally posted by pkese View Post

    It's not that RAID5/6 "ON btrfs" fundamentally broken ... it's just not high enough on priority lists.
    But otherwise yes, RAID5/6 is fundamentally broken ...

    No datacenter with serious amount of data is going to be using RAID5/6 anyway, because with larger disk sizes, it is becoming increasingly likely, that a RAID5 array does not survive a rebuild anyway. Cloud providers and backupers (Backblaze) have built their own distrubuted file systems.

    I don't think implementing RAID5/6 for btrfs is even worth the effort. People are free to use md-raid and ZFS while the RAID5/6 concept still lasts.
    There's no real market for RAID5 anyway ... except Linux nerds in their garages, who would then blame it on btrfs, when their RAID arrays wouldn't rebuild, even if it was due to real errors on their crappy 10-year old SATA drives bought garage sale.

    No, it's not worth it. There's plenty of other useful features that are worth more effort than RAID5.
    Honestly I had to start a slur about RAID5/6 at a previous company so that they stop doing it for massive production data (mdraid ... ). I don't know if I was successful, I left a while back. So yeah, I generally agree with everything you're saying, but:

    BTRFS pushed RAID5/6 while IMO it has always been a broken feature https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/RAID56

    That to me is quite problematic.

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  • vladpetric
    replied
    If I'm reading this correctly, BTRFS with RAID 5/6 has the write hole problem and it hasn't been fixed (I don't think it's possible to fix it without a bit of redesign honestly, but I could be wrong).



    ZFS RAIDZ doesn't have that problem ...

    Leave a comment:


  • flower
    replied
    Originally posted by piorunz View Post

    Is Raid5/6 planned in Bcachefs?
    it already has. it's called erasure code and you can enable it even for folders.

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  • piorunz
    replied
    Originally posted by vladpetric View Post

    BTRFS' RAID5/6 are fundamentally broken - much like the RBMK nuclear reactor of Chernobyl (and several other meltdowns).

    While bcachefs doesn't have RAID5/6 either, Kent seems to be doing a better job with filesystem design in general, even though he lacks the man power at this time.
    Is Raid5/6 planned in Bcachefs?

    Leave a comment:


  • binarybanana
    replied
    Does it have compression built in? With btrfs I get to store ~30% more stuff by just enabling force-compress=zstd, which is a huge difference. If so, will definitely try it out. Currently using bcache under a LUKS/LVM layer and I don't even notice that I'm not actually using a HDD to store 90% of the bytes. It's magic. I've also been using btrfs since shortly after it got mainlined and never had any issues and no data loss (btrfs-rescue always gets the files back, even from unmountable fs).

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  • pkese
    replied
    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
    it seems to be close to btrfs's state in 2008
    2008 Btrfs had the first internal prototype code at Oracle (Chris Mason joined Oracle in late 2007 to work on btrfs).
    2009 (+1) got mainlined into Linux kernel.
    2011 (+3) got scrubbing and defragmenting features
    2012 (+4) SUSE and Oracle Linux changed it's status from "experimental" to "production" or "supported".
    2015 (+7) it was adopted as the default filesystem for SUSE Enterprise Linux Server.

    2015 Bcachefs was announced (after a few years' unfunded development)
    2022 (+7) Bachefs may become mainlined as Experimental this year. According to a comment above, no scrubbing feature had been implemented yet.
    Last edited by pkese; 17 February 2022, 07:00 AM.

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