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Rust For The Linux Kernel Sent Out For Review A Fourth Time

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  • mdedetrich
    replied
    Originally posted by Volta View Post

    That's something new! The most advanced and successful operating system kernels are written in C. Probably the most advanced data base is written in C. Automotive industry (and any other serious industry) depends on C.
    Actually if you get serious enough they don't depend on C. In this ream you have languages like Ada or Erlang because of the guarantees they provide. Or in cases iike sel4 (the only actually formally verified kernel) you have Haskell.

    Languages like Haskell are also used a lot in defense, at least when you don't need real time guarantees. And in any system that is really mission critical, even if it is written in C they use theorem proves like Coq or Isabell where as Rust already has the theorem prover built into the language.

    Originally posted by betty567 View Post

    Then why don't you explain it all to us, Smitty?
    In terms of design Rust is basically variant of C with parametric polymorphism, traits and a linear type system to prove memory flow. It doesn't have any GC and memory allocation in Rust is manual, just like in C.
    Last edited by mdedetrich; 13 February 2022, 08:14 AM.

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  • mdedetrich
    replied
    Originally posted by betty567 View Post
    Rust is an attempt to bolt low level features onto a high level language, and it has never been successful, nor will it be.
    Both are an attempt to make programming "easier" for people that cannot handle true low level programming.
    Rust is not a high level language, try again.

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  • akira128
    replied
    Originally posted by Volta View Post

    I bet it's not C fault, but some developer. It's quite hard language, but very powerful one.
    I think the point being made here is that whether you're a great/average/crappy programmer, that the use of Rust would significantly reduce or eliminate these types of vulnerabilities from ever occurring...or you could just publicly shame thousands of developers. Hmmm....what to choose.

    I mean, programming languages are as insecure or secure as much as the developer themselves. If Rust provides a good framework, there will be less bugs just because it's harder for issues to sneak in (but not impossible). C just allows way too many to sneak in and that's the main issue with it.
    Last edited by akira128; 13 February 2022, 08:18 AM.

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  • dragonn
    replied
    Originally posted by Volta View Post

    That's something new! The most advanced and successful operating system kernels are written in C. Probably the most advanced data base is written in C. Automotive industry (and any other serious industry) depends on C.
    And what other choices you have before Rust? Really? The only other choice was C++, a lang with adds more complexity without solving ANY C problems.
    And other langs like Java, Python etc. are just not sensible option for some tasks, you just didn't have before Rust a choice if you need a lang with is compiled without a GC.
    Also, I completely don't get how the whole "C is more successful" is an argument here, you are comparing a language with had ~40 years of time to adopt on the market vs ~10 years. Of course at this point in time C will be more "successful", that doesn't mean in 30 years Rust can be at this point now C is and even beyond that.
    How is this even an argument? Man, it is like saying that fuel powered cars are more "successful" then electric because we used them over 100 years and electric cars are only recent getting tracking. HOW IS THAT EVEN AN ARGUMENT?!

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  • Volta
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    The Linux kernel for example already had a new buffer underflow exploit this year (CVE-2022-0185).
    I bet it's not C fault, but some developer. It's quite hard language, but very powerful one.

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  • Volta
    replied
    Originally posted by pabloski View Post
    Who knows, maybe even MS engineers are stupid.
    Their OS is broken by design, so no doubt.

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  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by Volta View Post

    That's something new! The most advanced and successful operating system kernels are written in C. Probably the most advanced data base is written in C. Automotive industry (and any other serious industry) depends on C.
    Yes, when there were no alternatives everybody had to use C. That doesn't mean it was a good, well designed or carefully thought through language. When all you have is a hammer etc... The Linux kernel for example already had a new buffer underflow exploit this year (CVE-2022-0185).

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  • Volta
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post

    Why bother? It's much more fun to just laugh at you.

    Anyone genuinely interested in what Rust is can easily look that up themselves.
    Can you show us how successful the Rust is? I'm not against it, but I'm trying to figure out on what basis some people formulate their claims.

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  • Volta
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post

    C is very mature but definitely not successful, at least not in terms of the quality of the software it has produced.
    That's something new! The most advanced and successful operating system kernels are written in C. Probably the most advanced data base is written in C. Automotive industry (and any other serious industry) depends on C.

    Leave a comment:


  • pabloski
    replied
    Originally posted by dragonn View Post

    What kind of stupid argument is that?
    Please stop, according to you if something is used by the entire world it is fine and every one should use it, then why are you even here? You should be running Windows on your PC, not the stupid 1% system no one uses.
    The world shows that often the widely used are not the best solution but the solution what was first on that market or the most easy to use (doesn't mean the best).
    The funny thing is that the manufacturer of the 90%+ OS is experimenting with Rust. They have worked overnight to make and release an official Win32 API binding for Rust. And they are working with driver manufacturers to integrate Rust in the toolchain.

    Who knows, maybe even MS engineers are stupid. The only intelligent people are betty567 and his/her pals.

    Leave a comment:

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