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Samsung 860/870 SSDs Continue Causing Problems For Linux Users

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  • #51
    Originally posted by mlau View Post

    True, but windows is probably the only OS the drive firmware gets extensively tested on, so knowing what windows does differently (it at all) is a win in my book.
    I agree, and with more than just this SSD. Just seems funny that no matter how right and correct Linux people do it they end up having to go an put in technically incorrect code because the device and firmware were developed on quirky-ass Windows. This isn't the first article like this and I seriously doubt that it's the last.

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    • #52
      I still do not get from both article and comments, what are the exact problems/symptoms .. i have 2x 860 in raid1 for / and /home (but with the big files/storage kept through symlinks on a hdd based raid1) and so far (power on hours 8789 and 5721) i fail to see any kind of problem ...

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      • #53
        Originally posted by adriansev View Post
        I still do not get from both article and comments, what are the exact problems/symptoms ..
        https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=201693

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        • #54
          Originally posted by user1 View Post
          According to Wkipedia, Linux is the only OS with queued trim support as of 1 July 2015.
          You are quoting 6y old article

          Most OS'es have ncq support by now. My rig's Windows/FreeBSD boots both have NCQ support. It's got 961 series Samsung nvme. Don't ask when exactly FreeBSD got ncq, don't know. Basic trim appeared 2013 but there were issues reported with some 800-series Samsungs around 2019. Might have been implemented then, dunno. I'd assume things got fixed or certain drives blacklisted when it came to ncq support in OS.


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          • #55
            I see lots of people with 'I haven't noticed any problems' and 'how to see the problem'.
            Bottomline:
            1. If the problem manifests, you will see it as sporadic huge delays on disk operations, disk bus resets, other errors on read and writes.
            2. For Samsung 860/870 queued TRIM issue, problem will manifest only while queued TRIM is enabled and used, and matches other conditions unknown (seems like nobody really investigated the cause, according to bugtracker) so is not frequent to be encountered overall. Most people that experienced it did so on deliberate fstrim execution.
            3. For Samsung 860/870 general NCQ issue, according to bugtracker and patch it manifests only on AMD/ATI (PCI vendor 1002) controllers, so older AM3+ 7xx/8xx/9xx series chipsets. It is not manifesting on newer AM4 (Bx50/Xx70) chipsets, so if you have one, you are more or less safe.
            Last edited by Alex/AT; 05 September 2021, 02:02 PM.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Alex/AT View Post
              I see lots of people with 'I haven't noticed any problems' and 'how to see the problem'.
              Bottomline:
              1. If the problem manifests, you will see it as sporadic huge delays on disk operations, disk bus resets, other errors on read and writes.
              2. For Samsung 860/870 queued TRIM issue, problem will manifest only while queued TRIM is enabled and used, and matches other conditions unknown (seems like nobody really investigated the cause, according to bugtracker) so is not frequent to be encountered overall. Most people that experienced it did so on deliberate fstrim execution.
              3. For Samsung 860/870 general NCQ issue, according to bugtracker and patch it manifests only on AMD/ATI (PCI vendor 1002) controllers, so older AM3+ 7xx/8xx/9xx series chipsets. It is not manifesting on newer AM4 (Bx50/Xx70) chipsets, so if you have one, you are more or less safe.
              I was looking to install Linux (Fedora 34) on a system with an AM3+/AMD 990FX chipset and a Samsung 850 Pro SSD. LOL Should I not do that now? Will the drive be reliable but just slower with no NCQ? Will I need to just run TRIM manually? Can you (or anyone) advise?
              Last edited by oldtimefighter; 05 September 2021, 08:55 PM.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by aht0 View Post
                You are quoting 6y old article

                Most OS'es have ncq support by now. My rig's Windows/FreeBSD boots both have NCQ support. It's got 961 series Samsung nvme. Don't ask when exactly FreeBSD got ncq, don't know. Basic trim appeared 2013 but there were issues reported with some 800-series Samsungs around 2019. Might have been implemented then, dunno. I'd assume things got fixed or certain drives blacklisted when it came to ncq support in OS.

                This is not about ncq, it's about ncq:ed trim. For e.g Windows we don't know what it supports since the Samsung NVMe driver is proprietary.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by oldtimefighter View Post

                  I was looking to install Linux (Fedora 34) on a system with an AM3+/AMD 990FX chipset and a Samsung 850 Pro SSD. LOL Should I not do that now? Will the drive be reliable but just slower with no NCQ? Will I need to just run TRIM manually? Can you (or anyone) advise?
                  Samsung 850 Pro should work (with NCQ), it has only queued trim blacklisted.

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                  • #59
                    I am glad that this thread got a lot better - the first pages is just crap. People who cannot behave. You would think that a site like Phoronix would mix nice experience Linux user who are happy to help newer people to Linux (and everything in between) - in other words: a friendly and humble community. But no, I have seen many threads on Phoronix just being hostile and people attacking each other and everything else.

                    So thanks to you who contribute with your knowledge, questions and nice attitude :-) (and if I had the mandate - the not so nice people: change or GTFO)

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post

                      This is not about ncq, it's about ncq:ed trim. For e.g Windows we don't know what it supports since the Samsung NVMe driver is proprietary.
                      You might be right. Found post from net poster of which claimed to have received statement from MS support back in 2018. Went pretty much like "Windows does not currently support ncq trim and might not receive it in the future because we are not convinced it would give noticeable benefits"

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