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The New NTFS File-System Driver Has Been Submitted For Linux 5.15

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  • #41
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    Most people exchange flash drives and other removable storage with people who use other OSes. Many people also use multiple OSes.
    And when you start doing that you might start with NTFS these days but after awhile and quite a few ntfs failure latter you will be switching to exfat.

    Thing to remember multi windows computers alone can screw you over using ntfs on a removable flash drive. exfat lacks the ability for windows to record permissions this is one of the factors why it works better for windows than ntfs as a transfer drive.

    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3109...t-vs-ntfs.html

    The recommendation in the many OS case has been exfat if possible followed by vfat then finally followed by NTFS as last option for quite some time for removal storage.

    NTFS is only really if you are usb key between computers connected to the same active directory setup and the machines are windows. Then you have to ask the question why not use a network share(there are cases where the answer is speed usb key will be faster).

    NTFS support is more important to Linux for migration than USB flash drives and other removable storage. NTFS is not designed for removable storage and windows does not handle ntfs correct for removable storage moving across systems owning to different domains of permission.

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    • #42
      I wonder if this new driver can solve the wine issue when creating a wineprefix on an NTFS unit. Most likely not, as it's NTFS fault for not having a permission system. But would be cool.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Zeioth View Post
        I wonder if this new driver can solve the wine issue when creating a wineprefix on an NTFS unit. Most likely not, as it's NTFS fault for not having a permission system. But would be cool.
        The new ntfs driver still does not contain all functionality that wine wants. It does contain more than ntfs-3g so better chance of not completely exploding in one face. Performs better for a loop back ext4 or xfs on ntfs partition.

        The issues are not just permission system.
        https://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#Does_Win...filesystems.3F
        Yes the ntfs3 solution biggest problem is in fact it was missing mapping files from disc to memory that wine uses a hell lot of. This may have changed since that was written in the faq but if the new ntfs driver in kernel still has that problem you are absolutely in hell attempt a wine prefix on it.

        There are a lot of features that wine uses that are not permission based that still need the file system driver to support them. Note I said file system driver not the file system design being the on disc bit. Lot of these feature really have nothing todo with what is on disc (like permissions and so on) but how completely coded the file system driver is with Linux or freebsd.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Zeioth View Post
          I wonder if this new driver can solve the wine issue when creating a wineprefix on an NTFS unit. Most likely not, as it's NTFS fault for not having a permission system. But would be cool.
          What issue? I tried ten of thousands games on NTFS with Wine - no problems at all.
          Last edited by mozo; 06 September 2021, 08:29 AM.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by mozo View Post
            What issue? I tried then of thousands games on NTFS with Wine - no problems at all.
            Sorry 1000 of games is still a drop. There are different feature wine uses that can still catch you. One game you will have to play at least hour into game before your save dies and you being unable to complete the game and its due to a file system feature missing resulting in a cut seen video not working. The new driver is well head of ntfs-3g in feature implemented but its still not the complete list wine will use.

            Please note wine will run with missing file system features as long as the application/game does not use them. So wine prefix on ntfs with the new driver is still a high risk of opps my program died due to file system at some random point than ext4 or xfs. If you are willing to take the risk that is fine.

            If you are after low risk loop back file of ext4/xfs on the ntfs partition using the new driver in most cases will have enough performance for most games with wine. This was not the case with ntfs-3g fuse.
            Last edited by oiaohm; 06 September 2021, 08:14 AM.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

              Sorry 1000 of games is still a drop. There are different feature wine uses that can still catch you. One game you will have to play at least hour into game before your save dies and you being unable to complete the game and its due to a file system feature missing resulting in a cut seen video not working. The new driver is well head of ntfs-3g in feature implemented but its still not the complete list wine will use.

              Please note wine will run with missing file system features as long as the application/game does not use them. So wine prefix on ntfs with the new driver is still a high risk of opps my program died due to file system at some random point than ext4 or xfs. If you are willing to take the risk that is fine.

              If you are after low risk loop back file of ext4/xfs on the ntfs partition using the new driver in most cases will have enough performance for most games with wine. This was not the case with ntfs-3g fuse.
              Over 10 000 games, not 1000. Not a single problem so far.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by mozo View Post
                Over 10 000 games, not 1000. Not a single problem so far.
                Do note the one about a few where its a cut seen or something else part way though. The problem is the so far bit. It takes quite a bit of time to be sure with wine that there is not hidden devils.

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                • #48
                  When it would be able to boot Linux form NTFS partition to get rid of Linux specific filesystems? NTFS would be nice for multiboot.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by ruthan View Post
                    When it would be able to boot Linux form NTFS partition to get rid of Linux specific filesystems? NTFS would be nice for multiboot.
                    From a quick glance at the driver it appears it supports regular permissions by storing them the same way Windows does for the Windows subsystem for Linux.
                    There should be no reason it can't be used as your rootfs if you really want to use it that way.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Vaporeon View Post
                      From a quick glance at the driver it appears it supports regular permissions by storing them the same way Windows does for the Windows subsystem for Linux.
                      There should be no reason it can't be used as your rootfs if you really want to use it that way.
                      There is a reason why you should not. Microsoft with WSL2 goes to a ext4 partition as one of the reasons is the unsolvable incompatible between Linux permissions and Windows permissions. The reality here you cannot store LInux style permissions correctly in NTFS. This comes more of a problem when you start using Linux security modules as well. Lack of permissions or incorrect permissions on a transfer drive of some form is not a problem as your OS partition having lack of permissions or incorrect permissions.

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