Linux Changes Pipe Behavior After Breaking Problematic Android Apps On Recent Kernels

[milkylainen]

I do believe in "We do not break userspace".
But not at any cost. This was a reasonable change.
If it took 2 bloody years to notice enough to make it revert then it's not an issue.
They can recompile their code or patch their release.

Better yet. Give me back non-stupid behavior and let Android #¤%#¤% tune a knob with sysctl for stupid behavior.

[perpetually high]

this is definitely strange. i never expected that linux will revert a good patch for the sake of some applications.
nicely done.
and to think that they have issues with nvidia not being opensource friendly.

You don't put out a fire by pointing fingers and figuring out who started it.

You put it out, then you go back and see what happened. This was the right course, they'll address this in the future so it seldom happens, but of course, it will happen. I agree with the post earlier about API abuse, though.

[Vorpal]

I wonder if any applications depend on the new (now reverted) behaviour. And what they will do if that is the case.

[stormcrow]

If someone depends on a bug for his workflow, its called a feature.

I see it can be bad when security is compromised, but in most other situations, its a good philosophy, and no one is foolish enough to apply a general statement everywhere indiscriminately, instead of a case by case basis. That said, hopefully these libraries are updated by the time android moves on to next LTS kernel

No, it's still called a bug. Just because someone decided they liked the bug doesn't mean it's any less a bug - unintended consequences by the creator. Depending on buggy behavior is on the program dev to fix their program, no matter how widespread use that program happens to be. I know I may be in the minority with that point of view, but the other point of view leads to the awful state of mainstream software today. There is no easy way to tell if buggy behavior (or feature as you call it) winds up an exploit in tomorrow's security breach. Fixing it today means that exploit couldn't use that particular bug to begin with.

[loganj]

this is definitely strange. i never expected that linux will revert a good patch for the sake of some applications.
nicely done.
and to think that they have issues with nvidia not being opensource friendly.

[perpetually high]

Why would this be an issue? I thought all Android phones used ancient kernel versions?

longterm: 4.19.200 2021-07-31 [tarball] [pgp] [patch] [inc. patch] [view diff] [browse] [changelog]
longterm: 4.14.241 2021-07-28 [tarball] [pgp] [patch] [inc. patch] [view diff] [browse] [changelog]
longterm: 4.9.277 2021-07-28 [tarball] [pgp] [patch] [inc. patch] [view diff] [browse] [changelog]
longterm: 4.4.277 2021-07-28 [tarball] [pgp] [patch] [inc. patch] [view diff] [browse] [changelog]

All those longterm kernels are probably getting lots of new code, that are being backported in. I'm just guessing, but I think that's what's happening. It's not just security patches that make it through, other stuff does as well.

[NathanSamson]

If someone depends on a bug for his workflow, its called a feature.

I see it can be bad when security is compromised, but in most other situations, its a good philosophy, and no one is foolish enough to apply a general statement everywhere indiscriminately, instead of a case by case basis. That said, hopefully these libraries are updated by the time android moves on to next LTS kernel

What incentive do they have to upgrade/change their behaviour? It seems Linux would support their use-case forever?

Unless the post wasn't complete and Linus is planning to depreceate the old behaviour in the future and just giving these apps a few more months/years to change, but I dont think that was specified...

[leo_sk]

If someone depends on a bug for his workflow, its called a feature.

I see it can be bad when security is compromised, but in most other situations, its a good philosophy, and no one is foolish enough to apply a general statement everywhere indiscriminately, instead of a case by case basis. That said, hopefully these libraries are updated by the time android moves on to next LTS kernel

[Vistaus]

Why would this be an issue? I thought all Android phones used ancient kernel versions?

[skeevy420]

I do believe this is one of the few times Linus is in the wrong on that pledge and it's come back to bite.

Couldn't this just be an option at compile or startup?

use_old_pipe=y/n