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XFS Sees A Lot Of Cleanups For Linux 5.14

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Lanz View Post
    I haven't been following too closely - why would I use XFS instead of say ext4 as a general desktop user running on an M.2 SSD?
    It's supposed to be more performant and/or scalable, also, it has rudimentary data CoW features (reflinks). On the other hand, it cannot shrink.

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    • #12
      avem
      I'd suggest doing a deep dive into features that matter to you -- and make sure the information is up-to-date. There's a lot of obsolete and just plain wrong information out there on the (de)merits of the various file systems. Also be aware that not all hard drives and solid state drives are created equal! I've read, and I can't find the link to the scholarly article now, that F2FS can prematurely age some SSDs because of cell misalignments with fs sectors - not to mention flash storage on USB sticks, SD cards, CF cards, etc can be different in the way they manage wear leveling. Be wary of "common wisdom"! Verify instead! And don't take my word about F2FS either.

      The reason I use(d) XFS goes way back to the ext3 days, and I still tend to like it... except on Ubuntu (never used Manjaro). Thanks to the AWFUL performance of ext3 at the time, I prefered XFS. The only time XFS was slower than ext3 was deleting very large directory trees, a rare need for me. That's no longer the case since ext4 replaced 3 and performance has mostly been a toss between the ext4 and XFS over the years. I'll probably just switch to another distro to solve the issue... or FreeBSD and OpenZFS mirrors same as the old Haswell server. Much as we tend to hate on Intel these days, that Haswell Xeon Thinkserver is practically a tank with ECC RAM and OpenZFS mirrors.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by intelfx

        This way lies mediocrity.

        Some people operate passively, whereas others are actively seeking out any ways to improve or better understand their current situation (in broad sense). This applies to all aspects of life, not just filesystems.
        God, I absolutely crazily hate blanket statements like this. What about your wife for example? Would you try to replace it because there are possibly better women out there? Or what about your house or car both of which are quite expensive? There are tons of things in life which do not need a replacement and replacing which could ruin your life completely.

        And speaking of XFS - in my old company, when we ran RHEL 6 we lost 200GB of files to XFS. They just vanished for no reasons. An XFS developer even SSH'ed to my server and his verdict after digging for an hour was, "I've no idea how it's happened". They were old backups, luckily we didn't need them. From then on we migrated all our storage to ext4 to never have any issues.

        If you feel playful to try new things just for fun - I've no problem with that. Replacing proven to work things just for fun? No, thank you.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by stormcrow View Post
          I wish these fixes would end up in Ubuntu 20.04. I keep getting a silent reboot every time I use XFS on (K)Ubuntu + AMD + XFS on /. No actionable errors in the logs, just a silent reboot. Ext4 for / and everything is fine. Using OpenSUSE + XFS on / and everything is fine on the same system! I don't know what it is with Ubuntu, because I can't get any logs to figure it out, but something screwy is going on there with XFS support, at least when it comes to my hardware - and I don't think my hardware is all that uncommon. AMD Ryzen 5 3600, Intel 660 & 665 NVME SSDs (it doesn't matter which one has root - if it's XFS it'll eventually start rebooting), 32 GB RAM, AMD 5500XT, AMD x570 MSI motherboard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

          Yes I know .. "don't use Ubuntu"
          just out of curriosty does it work with ubuntu 20.10 or newer Kernels like the under 20.04 eg hwe stackup ?

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          • #15
            Originally posted by avem View Post

            God, I absolutely crazily hate blanket statements like this. What about your wife for example? Would you try to replace it because there are possibly better women out there? Or what about your house or car both of which are quite expensive? There are tons of things in life which do not need a replacement and replacing which could ruin your life completely.
            Maybe, if the benefit would be large enough. It's called a "divorce".

            And speaking of XFS - in my old company, when we ran RHEL 6 we lost 200GB of files to XFS. They just vanished for no reasons. An XFS developer even SSH'ed to my server and his verdict after digging for an hour was, "I've no idea how it's happened". They were old backups, luckily we didn't need them. From then on we migrated all our storage to ext4 to never have any issues.
            You may have noticed that I'm not advocating for XFS, in fact I don't care about it. I'm advocating against the "if it ain't broke, don't touch it" mentality.

            If you feel playful to try new things just for fun - I've no problem with that. Replacing proven to work things just for fun? No, thank you.
            No, I don't feel "playful". I feel professional and responsible enough to understand that "trying new things" (or, rather, seeking out and trying better things) is the only proper way of doing anything.

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            • #16
              I wish I could knock people's heads together some days. No one was advocating switching from any file system to another. No one was advocating making uninformed changes "just because". You don't like XFS, fine, dandy. Don't use it. I've lost data on both ext* and XFS systems back in the early days. That doesn't mean I'm not going to research what's new and what may have changed enough to re-evaluate new versions of software or hardware. That's my JOB. Some businesses can stagnate on 1960s era solutions. Others have to keep looking for new solutions for new problems or old problems have more scientifically sound or efficient solutions now.

              If you notice, I never advocated any position. I explicitly told the questioner to research what's best for his situation, but don't rely on reports that have been obsoleted including my own.

              While researching new solutions to do my job is a qualified "don't fix if not broke" but "how can I do this better or faster?", I was only relating experiences with my personal machines.

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              • #17
                Ok we got it, you got jobs. So does everybody else, nobody gives a damn. Is there not a single topic on this site without FUD and abusive trolls? Use whatever filesystem you like and let others make their own decisions.

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                • #18
                  Still no news on the FS userspace tooling regarding the possibility to shrink an XFS filesystem?

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by stormcrow View Post
                    It's not a hardware failure issue of that sort. I've checked. It may be some hardware bug being triggered, but it's not a RAM failure problem. Lord knows there's enough bugs in the AMD video driver to fill a cricket cage at the local bait store. But for whatever reason, it's XFS that appears to be the only obvious connecting issue.
                    Well just for the sake of testng - have you tried BTRFS just for the reason of checking if it throws some errors? You may not be interested in using BTRFS , but it is very good at reporting errors if things go wrong. If you have some hardware issue triggered by memory, cables, cache memory, power supply, electric fences nearby or even because your machine is in the line of fire of a crack in the large hadron collider for all I know. You may also want to try with a different video driver. XFS *used* to be less than stellar on flaky hardware, but I have no idea how it is these days.

                    http://www.dirtcellar.net

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by arokh View Post
                      Ok we got it, you got jobs. So does everybody else, nobody gives a damn. Is there not a single topic on this site without FUD and abusive trolls? Use whatever filesystem you like and let others make their own decisions.
                      The irony of that comment is amazing.

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