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GNU Linux-Libre 5.12 Released After More Driver Deblobbing, Dedicated To A Cat

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  • #11
    What grinds my gears is a lack of lubrication.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by stormcrow View Post
      What grinds my gears is a lack of lubrication.
      +10
      Dude you just made my day...thnx for that !

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      • #13
        Originally posted by ServerGarbage View Post
        It still blows my mind that the "standard" linux kernel is shipped with so many black boxes and it blows it further that most of the people just see it normal or acceptable.
        It still blows my mind that people like you are using PCs and gadgets in the first place. Among other things you run UEFI, disk (SSD/HDD), CPU, NIC/WiFi, GPU and in many case sound card firmware - and that's only what I know (gadgets have a whole lot more firmware). How do you sleep at night? Must be having nightmares daily due to the abundance of surveillance, backdoors and radio waves around.

        It's really great you're not running or touching any IC business. Without firmware many devices would have to be recalled regularly due to design errors. That would cost a fortune and push you out of the market.

        Lastly, I'm 1000000% sure you have not actually verified the code you're running on any of your "open" "source" devices which means you're showing off and nothing else. It's not humanly possible during one person's entire life to complete the formal verification of even a web browser you're using right now. Firefox for instance a year ago contained over 20 million lines of code.

        (Someone continues to delete my comments for no reasons).

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        • #14
          Originally posted by birdie View Post
          It still blows my mind that people like you are using PCs and gadgets in the first place. Among other things you run UEFI, disk (SSD/HDD), CPU, NIC/WiFi, GPU and in many case sound card firmware
          The problem with on runtime loadable firmwares is that they are a moving target, so it's better to have a black box that you can over time know all the quirks and to build around, but you can't build good software around a moving target.

          Now you could argue you have always the freedom to load a older version of the firmware, but A are their contribution sometimes limited but also B like with I think the PS4 or was it the xbox where if you loaded a newer firmware and some transistor or something burned through that made it impossible to downgrade the firmware again, and this firmware was not manually installed like you would flash a bios, so it happend semi automatically. And it took features away from the hardware, so the user got taken away freedom by it, it's not always the backdoors freedom is more than just security from backdoors.

          Just googled it, just find that you can't downgrade the firmware ever... which is bad enough, but there was this firmware that removed that jailbreak, so made the device less useful.

          Also yes UEFI is evil, especially the secure boot bullshit and not only spy services and the manufactor have the rootkit but all criminals can use the bugs in it to hack pcs, yes the long run idea is to replace it, even if that means to move on to SPARC or something in the long run.

          But firmware is not = firmware a cpu firmware as far as I know is technicaly impossible to write a backdoor with network access in it, no matter what you do. I am no expert in this microcode things but that is my understanding.

          The question is do the 4 freedoms get restricted, if we consider bioses and stuff like that as hardware that is basically not really changable, at least we don't have to then it should not restrict the freedoms of any software run on it, with firmwares.

          It seems that firmwares get upgraded automatically in ps4 in some you can opt out easily in some you have to mess with dns entries to stop it:
          https://www.smartgametech.com/block-...ate-automatic/

          It's really great you're not running or touching any IC business. Without firmware many devices would have to be recalled regularly due to design errors. That would cost a fortune and push you out of the market.
          Not true most hardware runs fine without firmware upgrades it just ads new features and stuff, if the software is not banana software this basic hardware level firmwares should be fine enough, and nobody has a problem with the user deciding to actively upgrade their firmware. But the problem with this dynamically loaded firmwares is that companies can restrict the distribution of those and can as example enforce operation systems to only deliver the latest one or do other bad things.

          It's just basic things, companies could implement all they implement in such firmwares with FPGAs.

          Lastly, I'm 1000000% sure you have not actually verified the code you're running on any of your "open" "source" devices which means you're showing off and nothing else. .
          That's no good argument, that is a binary argument, either you reach perfection and it's only focused on security and backdoors, freedom is more than backdoors, I think it's reasonable to say that the chance that 1000 different eyes from different institutions look over the source and they all conspire without nobody randomly looking over a certain peace of malicious code is very slim, but even if that would not be true, again the freedoms the GPL gives are more than just security. It allows every person on the planet to change software or hire somebody to change it, no MS or anything else can tell the person "no matter what you pay, we will not fullfil your request, because we want this antifeature in place".

          So how does this automatic firmwares hurt the freedom of driver developers and users? Well the firmware upgrades can break the driver and then because it's a blackbox you have a very hard time to fix it, while one fix would been not to upgrade it, the damage of a upgrade can be higher than the benefit.

          Of course that is not perfect, it would be better to get more, but it's a good compromise to limit the negative consequences, it would be nice to be able to hack on the firmware, too. And it would be great if we could hack the hardware to be better, too. But the real world has limitations always, we are not god and can't mold our cpus to become 10 times faster or something, but we can expect that the hardware we buy don't get regressions by forced / automatic firmware upgrades.

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