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Gentoo Saw Total Commits Rise By 42% In 2020, Great Progress On Wayland

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  • #31
    Originally posted by kloczek View Post
    Since when quantity means quality?🤔
    According to a single-line explanation of the term quality at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_(philosophy), quality is an attribute or a property characteristic of an object. So, the question of when quantity means quality can be reduced to: when does quantity change an attribute or a property of an object? Molecules of natural gas are non-combustible in low quantities (low concentration) and combustible when in a high-enough quantity (see also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percolation_theory). Curiously, among philosophers it was for example Marxists who have been curious about quantity-vs-quality questions (for example: https://www.marxists.org/reference/a.../ch02-s09.html).

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    • #32
      Originally posted by f0rmat View Post

      My problem was never getting the base operating system to install. Time consuming, but not too difficult. It was trying to get a DE installed. There is where I usually borked it up - and that is where the Gentoo documentation is just a little lacking. Sakaki wrote that great guide on secure EFI boot with Windows 10 and Gentoo with a Gnome DE, but unfortunately he is no longer with them or, if he is, he is no longer able to maintain the tools that he created for it because of his new job. I would use it except that for my use case Gnome is not my desktop of choice. KDE is better for my workflow and there is where some of the documentation is a little lacking - but I will go back through and see what I can do.

      If anybody is curious, the link is here: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Sa..._Install_Guide
      Gentoo takes a while to understand it's use flags. What you want to set and what you don't. If you're looking for a source compile OS FreeBSD / Gentoo are somewhat close to each other. The creator of Gentoo was a BSD fan. FreeBSD's ports can use make flags, although it's somewhat more basic than Gentoo but also their is a default way to build packages and binary packages if you don't want to mess with self compile at all. Gentoo doesn't have that.

      ZFS might be a good option for you because once you have the base install if you mess it up the desktop build you can just roll it back.
      Last edited by k1e0x; 18 January 2021, 01:23 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by k1e0x View Post

        Gentoo takes a while to understand it's use flags. What you want to set and what you don't. If you're looking for a source compile OS FreeBSD / Gentoo are somewhat close to each other. The creator of Gentoo was a BSD fan. FreeBSD's ports can use make flags, although it's somewhat more basic than Gentoo but also their is a default way to build packages and binary packages if you don't want to mess with self compile at all. Gentoo doesn't have that.

        ZFS might be a good option for you because once you have the base install if you mess it up the desktop build you can just roll it back.
        That is just it...I want to go through the process in order to understand and optimize. If I had wanted to use Gentoo binaries, I would have used Funtoo. Thanks for the ZFS option...I will think on that. However, I will still have to mount the home partition on NTFS if I want to share it with the other operating systems (primarily Windows which I have no choice about - that thing called a job which gives me thing called a paycheck). That is the part I am most concerned about - but I do have good backups. I just have limited time and I do want to have to spend it restoring operating systems - especially Windows. Restoring Windows is time consuming. I can do a fresh install of KDE Neon with everything I need and a tweaked desktop in less than 50% of the time it takes me to do the same for Windows. Less than 25% of the time if you count the time I have to spend "taming" windows with GPOs and closing ports on the firewall to stop the spyware...oops, what I meant to say was to stop the "user experience improvement" processes from sucking down my bandwidth.
        GOD is REAL unless declared as an INTEGER.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by f0rmat View Post
          That is just it...I want to go through the process in order to understand and optimize. If I had wanted to use Gentoo binaries, I would have used Funtoo. Thanks for the ZFS option...I will think on that. However, I will still have to mount the home partition on NTFS if I want to share it with the other operating systems (primarily Windows which I have no choice about - that thing called a job which gives me thing called a paycheck). That is the part I am most concerned about - but I do have good backups. I just have limited time and I do want to have to spend it restoring operating systems - especially Windows. Restoring Windows is time consuming. I can do a fresh install of KDE Neon with everything I need and a tweaked desktop in less than 50% of the time it takes me to do the same for Windows. Less than 25% of the time if you count the time I have to spend "taming" windows with GPOs and closing ports on the firewall to stop the spyware...oops, what I meant to say was to stop the "user experience improvement" processes from sucking down my bandwidth.
          Might be related: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...sl2-mount-disk

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          • #35
            Originally posted by atomsymbol View Post
            That helps...and I appreciate the input, but it still goes back to my use case that I need to be able to just "open" the file immediately and natively. I can make LibreOfiice work with compatibility with Word and Excel for my use...but PowerPoint will not work for my use. I would love to be able to use LibreOffice and linux for what I need, but I must have a quick an easy way to get the files - and to do it using MS Teams. I hate working for an MS shop - but it pays the bills. That is what I am facing.

            That and quite a bit of ignorance...
            GOD is REAL unless declared as an INTEGER.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by f0rmat View Post
              but it had to be NTFS so Windows can see it. That was why the partitioning took so long.
              NTFS on Linux is a FUSE based filesystem, so it's painfull slow. You would be better using exFAT.

              Originally posted by dev_null View Post
              to feel good at gentoo you need the fastest cpu and disk drive possible.
              There are still people compiling on disc drives in 2021? https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Portage_TMPDIR_on_tmpfs

              Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
              I never had to worry what to update until gentoo locked up all my cores for hours in order to gain 3% performance improvements that I never felt.
              It's not gentoo picking all your cores but youself: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/MAKEOPTS - If you don't want to use all cores simply don't do it.

              //EDIT: Also with modern shedulers it shouldn't lock your system. Most likely you're swapping cause of too many parallel jobs (see the MAKEOPTS link above: "Another item to consider is RAM usage. Recent gcc versions have been known to take 1 GB to 1.5 GB of RAM per job. If the system has the 8 logical CPUs from the previous example, but only 4 GB RAM, the MAKEOPTS value should be lowered to -j3. This is so that the system has RAM to run the basics as well as compile without hitting swap very often slowing things down").
              Last edited by V10lator; 19 January 2021, 04:30 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by V10lator View Post
                It's not gentoo picking all your cores but youself: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/MAKEOPTS - If you don't want to use all cores simply don't do it.
                Beware that if MAKEOPTS is not specified it defaults to the value reported by nproc, not just -j1

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by f0rmat View Post

                  That is just it...I want to go through the process in order to understand and optimize. If I had wanted to use Gentoo binaries, I would have used Funtoo. Thanks for the ZFS option...I will think on that. However, I will still have to mount the home partition on NTFS if I want to share it with the other operating systems (primarily Windows which I have no choice about - that thing called a job which gives me thing called a paycheck). That is the part I am most concerned about - but I do have good backups. I just have limited time and I do want to have to spend it restoring operating systems - especially Windows. Restoring Windows is time consuming. I can do a fresh install of KDE Neon with everything I need and a tweaked desktop in less than 50% of the time it takes me to do the same for Windows. Less than 25% of the time if you count the time I have to spend "taming" windows with GPOs and closing ports on the firewall to stop the spyware...oops, what I meant to say was to stop the "user experience improvement" processes from sucking down my bandwidth.
                  To be frank and honest.. Gentoo is about custom choices for the software you use.. not about optimizing. If you go that route and try to optimize it will be unstable. The Gentoo LTO project mostly works but.. that is not why you use Gentoo IMO. One way you can make Gentoo faster is just by making it do less stuff by removing things you don't need.

                  Windows can read native ZFS, it's beta but ppl seam to say it works. Installer for it is here. https://github.com/openzfsonwindows/ZFSin/releases

                  I use removable ZFS drives between Linux, FreeBSD and MacOS and that works.. haven't tried to mount them on Windows tho. (The reason why is because you get cross platform encrypted removable drives.. it's nice)

                  The danger isn't that you'll lose data, it's that it might bluescreen windows. but if you do import and load the dataset encryption key, they should just show up as a letter drive in Windows explorer, they show up as Finder volume disks in MacOS. I recommend Z:\

                  Also Sabayon and Redcore are binary Gentoo based. (Binary kind of defeats the purpose though and makes choices for you)
                  Last edited by k1e0x; 19 January 2021, 04:49 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mazumoto View Post
                    Nice to hear that gentoo (my distribution of choice for quite some years now) is alive and growing. I have had the impression that it's slowly dwindling (packages not as up to date, documentation stale) in the recent years, but those numbers are encouraging.
                    I'm not even that much into optimizing or customizing anymore (that got me started with gentoo when resources were scarce) - but having a stable rolling release distro and portage as the package manager keeping everything syched up is most important to me nowadays.
                    The only real downside for me is the java support which seems very neglected (still on java 8 by default).
                    that's the reason i left gentoo abount five years ago. i am on arch now. but i still miss portage

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                    • #40
                      Here is a thread for people doing the same thing with ports on FreeBSD. it's NOT recommended but if you want to.. feel free.
                      https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/s...rc-conf.63544/

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