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Some Linux/Open-Source Letdowns Last For Years

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  • #11
    skeevy420

    There's nothing more free than Linux. Others are either slaves or whores. You can always use this crap with 'open source' slowlaris if you want. Or blame Oracle for choosing incompatible license.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Sonadow View Post

      I'm waiting for Deepin to finally move their desktop environment to Wayland. Unfortunately, they have said that it's not a priority with X still present, and many of China's domestic Linux distributions like UOS and Kylin are still on X.
      UOS is based on Deepin (and Deepin is more and more used by non-Chinese people nowadays, including me). And it's not true that they aren't working on Wayland. There is actually a Wayland session available on Deepin now if you manually install libdde-waylandclient, libdde-waylandserver, dde-qt5wayland-plugin and kwin-wayland (Deepin uses Qt and KWin). And I can tell you first-hand that they are making good progress. So it *is* a priority.

      Edit: regarding those packages: at least on the Deepin distro (V20) - I don't know about the availability on other distros that have packaged Deepin.
      Last edited by Vistaus; 01 January 2021, 12:54 PM.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by Volta View Post
        skeevy420

        There's nothing more free than Linux. Others are either slaves or whores. You can always use this crap with 'open source' slowlaris if you want. Or blame Oracle for choosing incompatible license.
        You're aware that the incompatibility issue is literally because OpenZFS is licensed more freely? That it's because it's allowed to be used in any manner of applications including closed source releases w/o sharing what has been done?

        The messed up part is the CDDL has a technicality that allows the source and the compiled binary to be under different licenses so upstream Linux could accept OpenZFS if the kernel added some sort of "if module then CDDL else if builtin then GPLv2" or "if source then CDDL else if compiled then GPLv2" catch-all parameter for CDDL code.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

          UOS is based on Deepin (and Deepin is more and more used by non-Chinese people nowadays, including me). And it's not true that they aren't working on Wayland. There is actually a Wayland session available on Deepin now if you manually install libdde-waylandclient, libdde-waylandserver, dde-qt5wayland-plugin and kwin-wayland (Deepin uses Qt and KWin). And I can tell you first-hand that they are making good progress. So it *is* a priority.

          Edit: regarding those packages: at least on the Deepin distro (V20) - I don't know about the availability on other distros that have packaged Deepin.
          I am on Debian. How is the Deepin-on-Wayland experience like?

          Currently I can use Plasma on Wayland with Nouveau if I disable threaded GL, but there is a chance of a random lockup. Is there any way to disable threaded GL in Deepin Wayland?

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          • #15
            Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

            You're aware that the incompatibility issue is literally because OpenZFS is licensed more freely? That it's because it's allowed to be used in any manner of applications including closed source releases w/o sharing what has been done?
            BS - at the time Sun explained that they explicitly chose the license so that ZFS could not be included in Linux. It was a major selling point of Open Solaris over Linux, which was a big thing for Sun back then...
            Last edited by OneTimeShot; 01 January 2021, 03:55 PM.

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            • #16
              there's only one next-gen linux fs - btrfs

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              • #17
                Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                For me it's the lack of 1st class OpenZFS support from any distribution aside from Ubuntu. Nothing against Ubuntu; I'd rather have a Pacman-based distribution. I've used their ZFS setup
                it's your problem. you are using out of tree shit, you have to support it yourself
                Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                If you can get over the out-of-tree status
                and stop crying about no distro support? what's stopping you then?
                Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                it really is a nice FS
                i can't call fs nice if it can't change its size
                Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                Plus it works on Linux, FreeBSD, & MacOS natively
                natively means "in-tree". btw, everything works everywhere where you can run it in vm, so this point became moot long ago

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                  You're aware that the incompatibility issue is literally because OpenZFS is licensed more freely?
                  you are aware that you have unconventional definition of freedom?
                  Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                  That it's because it's allowed to be used in any manner of applications including closed source releases w/o sharing what has been done?
                  no, it's not. bsd license is and bsd is compatible with gpl
                  Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                  The messed up part is the CDDL has a technicality that allows the source and the compiled binary to be under different licenses so upstream Linux could accept OpenZFS if the kernel added some sort of "if module then CDDL else if builtin then GPLv2" or "if source then CDDL else if compiled then GPLv2" catch-all parameter for CDDL code.
                  did you try to discuss this fantasy with lawyer?

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                    For me it's the lack of 1st class OpenZFS support from any distribution aside from Ubuntu. Nothing against Ubuntu; I'd rather have a Pacman-based distribution. I've used their ZFS setup and it's pretty nice and I was able to upgrade it into a mirrored setup very easily. It'd be cool if the use of Zsys spread from more than just Ubuntu.

                    If you can get over the out-of-tree status it really is a nice FS. More features and abilities than you can shake a stick at and very few things come close in the consumer-grade, open source world. Plus it works on Linux, FreeBSD, & MacOS natively and, for power users, on Windows with WSL2 if you build your own kernel with ZFS built-in...which is true for any file system and WSL2. No reason you can't use BTRFS or F2FS on Windows like that. Just a tip if you game and dual boot: WSL2 is a nice way to transfer stuff from Windows Disk to Linux Disk. But outside of Microsoft File Systems, OpenZFS is one of the best cross-platform options.

                    IMHO, OpenZFS is much better when compared to most other out-of-tree drivers that won't be included in kernel. At least it's open source unlike Nvidia's Blob or even AMDGPU-Pro. It's problem is it's too free for Linux. No kidding. Too free for Linux. Can't make that up, people.

                    Since I'm a KDE Plasma user most of the letdowns really don't effect me all that much aside from AMD and their (non-existent) control panel. I don't see why they can't just pick one of the open source tools and hire that dev. We need a GUI; you made a GUI; problem solved.
                    The problem with ZFS as Linus correctly pointed out in past is Oracle. You never know when they would wake up one day and file a law suit against its implementation in linux (like google and java debacle). He said he had no problem including it in kernel if he got a written letter from oracle lawyers that it was okay to do so.

                    Also I think AMD's approach is good and in tandem with open source culture. They have done the tough part of exposing the settings through the drivers. It would be the duty of community to build tools upon it that suit its need. It also gives a chance to have integrated solution with all vendors (atleast intel and amd) which would not be possible if each developed their own tools

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                      there's only one next-gen linux fs - btrfs
                      I'm more interested in NVFS. My last nVIDIA gpu was a 7600GT 8x AGP, only AMD integrated graphics or APU afterwards.

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