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Systemd Had A Pretty Big 2020 With Homed, OOMD Components Merged

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  • Systemd Had A Pretty Big 2020 With Homed, OOMD Components Merged

    Phoronix: Systemd Had A Pretty Big 2020 With Homed, OOMD Components Merged

    The systemd service and system manager had another busy year with the merging of "homed" for modernizing and reinventing home directory capabilities to "oomd" being merged for improving the Linux memory pressure / out-of-memory handling, among other new features coming to light...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...x=systemd-2020

  • #2
    I don't really hate systemd that much, sure it's a lot of stuff packaged into one thing, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as it massively simplifies distro development.

    What I do hate, is pulseaudio, that shit needs to be replaced with something that's not a bloated buggy piece of crap mess. Systemd is fine.

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    • #3
      By today standard it seems that any stupid idea you throw in qualifies as "modernizing"...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rabcor View Post
        I don't really hate systemd that much, sure it's a lot of stuff packaged into one thing, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as it massively simplifies distro development.

        What I do hate, is pulseaudio, that shit needs to be replaced with something that's not a bloated buggy piece of crap mess. Systemd is fine.
        I think pulseaudio is fine for desktop audio. It's going to be replaced with pipewire in the future, which should be fine as well (plus pipewire should fit the usecase of jack as well).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rabcor View Post

          What I do hate, is pulseaudio, that shit needs to be replaced with something that's not a bloated buggy piece of crap mess. Systemd is fine.
          Pulse is fine, especially for what it is. Consumer grade audio management. It adds a LOT ontop of alsa. has an awesome GUI and CLI for scripting.

          Right now, I am showing pulse eating a whopping 4MiB of RAM and takes up 6MiB of disk space. I don't see how this is "bloated" at all.

          Its been mentioned that pipewire will contain the ease of pulse, which it emulates, along with jack emulation and pro-grade latency. As well as video.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by archkde View Post

            I think pulseaudio is fine for desktop audio. It's going to be replaced with pipewire in the future, which should be fine as well (plus pipewire should fit the usecase of jack as well).
            Oh we really have a replacement for pulse in the works? this makes me giddy!

            Originally posted by GI_Jack View Post

            Pulse is fine, especially for what it is. Consumer grade audio management. It adds a LOT ontop of alsa. has an awesome GUI and CLI for scripting.

            Right now, I am showing pulse eating a whopping 4MiB of RAM and takes up 6MiB of disk space. I don't see how this is "bloated" at all.

            Its been mentioned that pipewire will contain the ease of pulse, which it emulates, along with jack emulation and pro-grade latency. As well as video.

            Wrong, it's not consumer grade audio management, it's server grade audio management (ha, get it? but what I'm actually implying here, is that pulseaudio seems to be designed more for remote streaming of audio, than for consumer audio management, that's always felt like a second thought when whoever designed pulse did so... It's just that that's what it ended up actually being used for...)

            it does add A LOT on top of alsa, that's the problem, it adds freaking mountains of convoluted shit, most of which I don't even want, need or use. it has no specific gui (there are a lot of frontends for it though) and idk what you mean about cli for scripting, what are you referring to?

            It's not bloated in the disk space it consumes but in the inefficient code and amount of useless (to most users) features it contains, the latency it introduces to audio, etc.

            But my biggest problem with pulse (besides latency shenanigans) is that it often creates (much) unwanted distortions (noise/crackling/etc) in my audio that drives me up the fucking wall.

            Also one of the only features I actually like about pulseaudio, the echo cancellation (which can only be properly enabled through manually tweaking settings files... e.g. not through gui, at least not any gui i've seen) seems to have randomly broken on my linux installation, for no apparent reason, I can't even troubleshoot it because pulseaudio seems to think it's working fine.

            It's a broken piece of garbage that has never worked right for me is what it is...
            Last edited by rabcor; 29 December 2020, 07:04 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rabcor View Post
              I don't really hate systemd that much, sure it's a lot of stuff packaged into one thing, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as it massively simplifies distro development.

              What I do hate, is pulseaudio, that shit needs to be replaced with something that's not a bloated buggy piece of crap mess. Systemd is fine.
              I use pipewire already with pipewire-pulse mainly because of bluetooth audio. Just works™

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              • #8
                pulseaudio/pipewire its fine

                if you are truly looking for no systemd in your system there is a new thing called s6 which self proclaims to be systemd done right, and there is an arch based distro that has embraced it already https://web.obarun.org/

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by rabcor View Post

                  Oh we really have a replacement for pulse in the works? this makes me giddy!




                  Wrong, it's not consumer grade audio management, it's server grade audio management (ha, get it? but what I'm actually implying here, is that pulseaudio seems to be designed more for remote streaming of audio, than for consumer audio management, that's always felt like a second thought when whoever designed pulse did so... It's just that that's what it ended up actually being used for...)

                  it does add A LOT on top of alsa, that's the problem, it adds freaking mountains of convoluted shit, most of which I don't even want, need or use. it has no specific gui (there are a lot of frontends for it though) and idk what you mean about cli for scripting, what are you referring to?

                  It's not bloated in the disk space it consumes but in the inefficient code and amount of useless (to most users) features it contains, the latency it introduces to audio, etc.

                  But my biggest problem with pulse (besides latency shenanigans) is that it often creates (much) unwanted distortions (noise/crackling/etc) in my audio that drives me up the fucking wall.

                  Also one of the only features I actually like about pulseaudio, the echo cancellation (which can only be properly enabled through manually tweaking settings files... e.g. not through gui, at least not any gui i've seen) seems to have randomly broken on my linux installation, for no apparent reason, I can't even troubleshoot it because pulseaudio seems to think it's working fine.

                  It's a broken piece of garbage that has never worked right for me is what it is...
                  If there are latency issues you should report upstream if it hasn't already been done already. Linux's audio subsystem has always been terrible when compared to MacOS, we either have Jack which is low latency but has terrible usability for handling multiple applications/devices (which means its only suitable for audio editing for a single application) or pulseaudio which has the usability of what is expected for desktop but introduces latency.

                  Pipewire is meant to fix these issues by combining the best of both worlds and is actually heavily influenced by what Mac has, so the problem that Puleaudio is solving is definitely needed (just like systemd which is based on macs launchctl)

                  EDIT: just released you were talking about pulse and not pipewise, in which case you can ignore this.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Shiba View Post
                    By today standard it seems that any stupid idea you throw in qualifies as "modernizing"...
                    Is it really a stupid idea though? the usual argument for why systemd is bad is because it uses a monolithic design, but that's not a very good argument, since the linux kernel is also monolithic, therefore, if that's your reason, do you think the linux kernel is stupid too? and if so, why are you using it?

                    Originally posted by foxie View Post

                    I use pipewire already with pipewire-pulse mainly because of bluetooth audio. Just works™
                    I can't use it yet because I must have echo cancellation, although the echo cancellation on my pulse (as I mentioned before) just randomly stopped functioning for no explained reason (not even a fucking error message or anything... and no it's not a misconfiguration, i never changed the config file from the time it worked, and, I triple checked just in case...) I guess I might as well just switch.

                    i just need 2 things besides basic functionality

                    echo cancellation (which should be called basic functionality tbh; this is on their to-do list though so, hype! seems to be a bit big of a task though, so yike!)
                    equalizer (also should be called basic functionality tbh, everybody and their dog needs an equalizer to fix their shitty audio anyways, should just be included)

                    although i am under the impression that the pulseaudio ladspa equalizer should work with pipewire (since pipewire-pulse is an optional dependency for that on arch, but I haven't tested it so it's possibly (probably) a misconception), but echo cancellation is pretty damn important too.
                    Last edited by rabcor; 29 December 2020, 08:21 AM.

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