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New NTFS Linux Driver Spun A Ninth Time, Still Under Review
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Originally posted by ed31337 View PostDoes anybody have any suspicions as to why Paragon is looking to mainline their NTFS driver? Wouldn't this sabotage their commerical driver income? For something that would presumably be working against them for future revenue, they sure are keeping at this project!
Originally posted by ed31337 View PostPure speculation: Perhaps Microsoft is secretly working towards rebasing Windows to run off of Linux? Maybe Microsoft is funding Paragon's efforts behind the scenes? Mainlining a full R/W commercial NTFS driver in Linux would help "Microsoft Linux" become closer to reality. This is the only explanation I can come up with as to why Paragon is suddenly so keen on doing this work...
Originally posted by ed31337 View PostFirst we got systemd, which makes services under Linux work a lot more like how services operate in Windows. Next we got exFAT file system support. Now we're getting NTFS file system support. Valve is working on WINE for playing old Windows games under Linux, despite very low Linux marketshare by their own statistics. Yesterday, we got Microsoft's open sourced Calculator ported to Linux...
It's like a giant jigsaw puzzle slowly being put together, piece by piece...
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Originally posted by eydee View PostDisregarding all the legal issues, significant changes happened to NTFS between XP and Vista. In fact, XP SP1 can't even read an NTFS volume made by Vista, XP need newer updates for that. Not that useful, isn't it?
To be correct you have a statement that is true but is also deceptive. If you are looking at on disc formatting NTFS from XP SP1 to Vista are absolutely the same. First on disc formatting change is with Windows 8.1 with the log file. There is attribute data that NTFS partition made by Vista can have that causes XP prior to SP2 to in fact buffer overflow in the NTFS driver. The horrible part here is using tool released with NT 4.0 for Posix support to allow create for posix subsystem applications to create symlinks would also also cause XP SP1 to bite the big one for the same reason. XP ntfs driver was not 100 percent bug free.
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Originally posted by eydee View PostIf MS wanted a decent NTFS driver in Linux, they could just use their own, not some 3rd party stuff.
Plus, as we understand it, Microsoft's Windows source code isn't entirely Microsoft's. It probably includes significant licensed code that they are under obligation to keep closed source. Remember when Netscape decided to "open source" Netscape Navigator? They had to gut out a bunch of proprietary stuff that they weren't allowed to release, and the resultant Mozilla was almost a total re-write in the end.
Instead, why wouldn't Microsoft shop around for existing NTFS code that is nearly as good as their own (or better?), but is already ported to Linux and easier to open source? If Paragon's NTFS meets all the specs, then this could be a cost saving maneuver.
They could blame it LSW or just their "love" for Linux, no need to do anything secretly.
Corporations have bills to pay. If word gets out that their existing product is going to be obsoleted in the near future, that can have a negative impact on revenues right now, before they've gotten their next generation product ready for the market. If it's more profitable to keep things secret, you can bet they're going to keep things secret.Last edited by ed31337; 18 October 2020, 11:06 AM.
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Originally posted by birdie View PostConsidering the lack of internal stable API in the Linux kernel Paragon might have realized that it's easier/cheaper to mainline their NTFS driver rather than maintain it locally. Speaking of income - that's a valid concern for which I have no explanation. Perhaps their revenue has dried up and instead of throwing away the code that they've invested quite a lot of money in, they instead decided to give back to the Linux community.
Originally posted by birdie View PostNo, never. Also, Paragon's driver is based on NTFS specs and might not be as reliable as Windows own NTFS driver. Actually I'm 100% sure the native NTFS driver in Windows is a lot more reliable and tested.
Also version 2 of the mainline Paragon submited has a huge number of bugs detected and forced to be fixed by sparse in mainline Linux kernel running over the driver. Its going to take time to see where this lands. Its possible that it lands that the NTFS driver in the Linux kernel is safer to use than the NTFS driver in Windows.
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Here's my speculation as why Paragon is doing this: NTFS is obsolete in commercial space, their only form of revenue (consumers don't pay for drivers). ReFS is where all the commercial value is, and they all are going to ReFS. And who is the only provider of driver for ReFS? The same people that wrote the official linux NTFS driver. Great publicity, credibility, all for releasing something that was quickly becoming obsolete. ReFS came out 8 years ago and most corporate settings take about a decade to integrate new tech paradigms, so that's my theory.
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Paragon is the Startech of file systems.
They essentially create all of these widgets to combine certain file systems to general use OS'es.
They even have a btrfs driver for Windows.
Where do they make their money? backup & partition software for SMB's.
They have had some interesting tools over the years.
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Originally posted by ed31337 View Post
Does anybody have any suspicions as to why Paragon is looking to mainline their NTFS driver? Wouldn't this sabotage their commerical driver income? For something that would presumably be working against them for future revenue, they sure are keeping at this project!
Pure speculation: Perhaps Microsoft is secretly working towards rebasing Windows to run off of Linux? Maybe Microsoft is funding Paragon's efforts behind the scenes? Mainlining a full R/W commercial NTFS driver in Linux would help "Microsoft Linux" become closer to reality. This is the only explanation I can come up with as to why Paragon is suddenly so keen on doing this work...
First we got systemd, which makes services under Linux work a lot more like how services operate in Windows. Next we got exFAT file system support. Now we're getting NTFS file system support. Valve is working on WINE for playing old Windows games under Linux, despite very low Linux marketshare by their own statistics. Yesterday, we got Microsoft's open sourced Calculator ported to Linux...
It's like a giant jigsaw puzzle slowly being put together, piece by piece...
It doesn't make much sense as a commercial product either, since the people who desperately need this over ntfs-3g can be counted on one hand, whereas the people who will benefit from them sharing it with the linux kernel can be counted in thousands if not millions.
Just shut up and be thankful when companies do nice things instead of doubting everyone's motives. Although most companies (especially the largest ones) are cold machines that run purely based on what the numbers say, or what some idiot in a suit claims the numbers say; not all companies operate this way, not all company founders and ceos disregard ethics and morals in favor of profit. Sometimes people just feel like doing nice things, maybe they simply really cared about this product and were disappointed that so few people were using it so they decided to forego profits in order to spread their technology so that they can feel more proud of their work. It could also just be PR since most of their potential clients for their other work are deeply involved in the open source community, positioning themselves as a liked contributor to open source software is great PR for them.
Whatever their reasons are, we have no reason to not be grateful for it. Although I must admit I am curious as you are about how this came to be.Last edited by rabcor; 18 October 2020, 07:04 PM.
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Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
No reason someone can't be evil and use the Linux kernel with proprietary kernel modules.
Also, see Android. That's literally proprietary Linux.
They took a standard Linux OS, hid that from the user, and gave us a Java front-end tied to Google servers and services with an app store that rips developers off just as bad as Steam. They didn't even need to be evil and hide behind proprietary kernel modules. They just hid the entire Linux kernel and userspace with VM-Droid.
Linux can totally be proprietary and the GPL doesn't prevent it at all. All the GPL does is ensure that companies might release some fustercluck of a kernel source like Motorola and Samsung do with their Android phones. GPL and Open Source doesn't prevent using locked bootloaders, the (IMHO) criminal act of tying unlocking the bootloader to agreeing to give up one's warranty, and using that locked bootloader to fire up a proprietary software stack designed to keep you from using Linux and the standard Linux userspace tools.
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