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Linux 5.10 Will Be Able To Hibernate + Resume Much Faster

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  • moriel5
    replied
    Originally posted by polarathene View Post

    I thought you were wanting an SSD on a budget anyway?

    Is your write activity going to be that high that the endurance is such a concern? 500GB MX500 is 180 TBW, while a 1TB MX500 is double that at 360 TBW. Are you planning to write the drives capacity of 1TB daily and burn through the endurance within a single year?

    Or is 100GB on average daily more realistic, which would be close to 10 years. Not many need to write that much every day, and if they do it's not usually on a drive that's intended to be kept for archiving data, it's like a scratch drive that's disposable.



    When USB4 arrives and makes the additional benefits of ThunderBolt available for device passthrough, it should be pretty interesting for stuff like this. Latency probably won't be as great though, I intend to use it with a future laptop for GPU processing (since I wouldn't need to lug one around on the go, a lighter laptop for travel is better and lasts longer upgrading graphics externally).
    I'm on a tight budget, however that budget needs to provide me something that lasts, therefore, mechanical HDDs are currently my best bet.
    Unfortunately, my next laptop won't support machanical HDDs (ThinkPad L15 (AMD)), so I am going to need to backup much more often, which means that I'll need to save up during the warranty period (I'll be extending the warranty to 5 years).

    And yes. I am currently saving up towards the ThinkPad, and hopefully I shall have the budget for it in a few months (when it will finally be available in my country).

    And I have checked, and it unfortunately does not officially support 110mm M.2 SSDs (hopefully an unofficial bracket from AliExpress may help me there).

    Originally posted by polarathene View Post
    Samsung has something similar to Optane for low latency btw, Z-NAND I think they call it. I have this old article link comparing it to the 905p:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/in...ssd,38987.html
    That's nice, but as I had said, the most important part is longevity.
    I wonder whether it is possible to limit the PCIe write speeds to PCIe 1.1 specs, that could help longevity.

    Update: Interesting, I wonder whether Z-NAND is actually SLC, or only part of it is SLC, and the rest TLC (similarly to Intel's Optane cache-equipped TLC SSDs).
    Last edited by moriel5; 24 October 2020, 06:34 PM.

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  • polarathene
    replied
    Originally posted by moriel5 View Post
    The write endurance is precisely my main point of worry.
    And Micron's Crucial-branded SSDs are great, however they are more of a budget option, and their write endurance reflects that.
    I thought you were wanting an SSD on a budget anyway?

    Is your write activity going to be that high that the endurance is such a concern? 500GB MX500 is 180 TBW, while a 1TB MX500 is double that at 360 TBW. Are you planning to write the drives capacity of 1TB daily and burn through the endurance within a single year?

    Or is 100GB on average daily more realistic, which would be close to 10 years. Not many need to write that much every day, and if they do it's not usually on a drive that's intended to be kept for archiving data, it's like a scratch drive that's disposable.

    Originally posted by moriel5 View Post
    Thanks for updating me about the 905p, it appears that I had missed the 380GB model, though I am not sure whether it could fit in a laptop (110mm), unfortunately.
    When USB4 arrives and makes the additional benefits of ThunderBolt available for device passthrough, it should be pretty interesting for stuff like this. Latency probably won't be as great though, I intend to use it with a future laptop for GPU processing (since I wouldn't need to lug one around on the go, a lighter laptop for travel is better and lasts longer upgrading graphics externally).

    Samsung has something similar to Optane for low latency btw, Z-NAND I think they call it. I have this old article link comparing it to the 905p:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/in...ssd,38987.html

    Leave a comment:


  • moriel5
    replied
    Originally posted by polarathene View Post

    SSDs to my knowledge last well regardless, it's just the write endurance you need to keep in mind as when the SSD reaches the end of it's "life" it cannot write anymore, but can read. As long as you have SMART support I think you can keep the writes tracked. Not sure what my chinese SSD write endurance is, but I'm not doing many write heavy workloads on it beyond perhaps updates once a month roughly with Manjaro where AUR packages compile from source.

    And a 4GB Swap partition, but with 32GB of RAM and low swappiness, it only uses that when I'm well into 20GB of RAM usage (which gets harder to surpass as most of the time the bulk is from Chrome, and either Chrome has a % allocation cap, or monitors total system usage to a certain % as around 75% of RAM used on my system I notice Chrome needs to reload tabs I revisit otherwise, but freeing up memory from other programs (eg 1-2GB) or finding a rogue tab like a medium article has some how fattened up over 1GB over time, it doesn't continue to unload inactive tabs).

    If you get an Intel Optane 900p/905p, these have capacities around 480GB and 960GB I think and extremely low latency (much less than even an m.2 NVMe SSD tends to have, although peak throughput isn't better just responsiveness). They have write endurance into the petabytes, much better than NVMe SSDs usually offer. Not sure about the smaller NVDIMM optane products, probably similar high write endurance too.

    For SSDs, I usually buy from Micron, I have MX500 SATA drives and the MX300 before those. They've been solid, highly reputable and good price (but not the cheapest).
    The write endurance is precisely my main point of worry.
    And Micron's Crucial-branded SSDs are great, however they are more of a budget option, and their write endurance reflects that.

    Currently, it appears that Intel's Optane drives have the best write endurance, however I have no idea whether that carries on to their 16-64GB drives (there is nothing more than that on M.2, only U.2 and full-size PCIe).

    Other than that, drives that are reported to have good write endurance are Samsung's Pro lineup and HP's enterprise drives that are available to consumers (I do not remember any other options currently).

    Lately, SK Hynix have released their "Gold" lineup, which is only available in 2.5" SATA configurations, and has relatively good write-endurance (not as good as Samsung's Pro lineup, but still respectable).

    Thanks for updating me about the 905p, it appears that I had missed the 380GB model, though I am not sure whether it could fit in a laptop (110mm), unfortunately.

    The U.2 specification has so much potential for replacing SATA drives, it's a shame that most motherboards don't support it (a laptop sporting a U.2 port would be awesome, since it would allow support for many enterprise-only drives, however a desktop will earn more from this, since many times in the prosumer space, you need a boatload of local storage, occasionally even internal storage).

    I really hope there'll be some M.2 PCM drives from Micron (QuantX, or whatever they will call it) that I'll be able to stick in a laptop, that would be a dream come true at this stage.

    Leave a comment:


  • polarathene
    replied
    Originally posted by moriel5 View Post
    I wonder how long would Intel's 16-64GB Optane drives last with a rolling distro.
    SSDs to my knowledge last well regardless, it's just the write endurance you need to keep in mind as when the SSD reaches the end of it's "life" it cannot write anymore, but can read. As long as you have SMART support I think you can keep the writes tracked. Not sure what my chinese SSD write endurance is, but I'm not doing many write heavy workloads on it beyond perhaps updates once a month roughly with Manjaro where AUR packages compile from source.

    And a 4GB Swap partition, but with 32GB of RAM and low swappiness, it only uses that when I'm well into 20GB of RAM usage (which gets harder to surpass as most of the time the bulk is from Chrome, and either Chrome has a % allocation cap, or monitors total system usage to a certain % as around 75% of RAM used on my system I notice Chrome needs to reload tabs I revisit otherwise, but freeing up memory from other programs (eg 1-2GB) or finding a rogue tab like a medium article has some how fattened up over 1GB over time, it doesn't continue to unload inactive tabs).

    If you get an Intel Optane 900p/905p, these have capacities around 480GB and 960GB I think and extremely low latency (much less than even an m.2 NVMe SSD tends to have, although peak throughput isn't better just responsiveness). They have write endurance into the petabytes, much better than NVMe SSDs usually offer. Not sure about the smaller NVDIMM optane products, probably similar high write endurance too.

    For SSDs, I usually buy from Micron, I have MX500 SATA drives and the MX300 before those. They've been solid, highly reputable and good price (but not the cheapest).

    Leave a comment:


  • moriel5
    replied
    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post

    Got a whole range of them from 128GB up to 2TB.

    Chinese SSDs can be either SLC, TLC or MLC like the big brand OEMs. No difference.

    If big-brand tier-1 OEMs like Samsung, Crucial or Intel don't offer a 7-year data guarantee on their SSDs, is there any reason for a tier-2 Chinese OEM to do so?
    That certainly sounds good, bud still, longevity is more important.

    As for the underlying tech, it is certainly one of the main aspects, however the silicon quality could be questionable.

    Datacenter-grade SSDs sometimes get that kind of guarantee, however it is uncommon, and extremely expensive.

    It would be great if there would be an SSD that shares the same hardware as one of the best PCIe Gen4 SSDs (and be either SLC (rare) or MLC), but limited to SATA speeds (as in, 6Gbt/s), that may be able to easily reach the 10-year mark.

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  • moriel5
    replied
    Originally posted by polarathene View Post

    Keep in mind you're discussing purchasing one from a chinese vendor for a lower price, that normally entails some tradeoffs.

    I was in China in 2018 and had a desktop purchased off TaoBao there, arrived fairly quickly, definitely wasn't perfect but the 128GB SSD from Colorful I took back with me and that continues to work fairly well. I'm sure they sell 500GB+ models too, but I got the whole thing for 300-600USD or something, 16GB DDR4 with a GTX-1060 6GB GPU and i5-8400 6 core CPU (the marketing in china is kinda scary, there's "new" systems being sold with 1st gen i7's but relying on customers to only recognize the i7 branding).
    That is certainly true, there will always be tradeoffs in this kind of situation.

    Your Colorful SSD sounds like it is doing relatively well, however 2-3 years is not a good span of time to judge a drive's longevity.
    As I said, I am looking for something that will last well over 7 years.

    I wonder how long would Intel's 16-64GB Optane drives last with a rolling distro.

    Leave a comment:


  • sandy8925
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    I don't need it faster, I need it working.
    On Kubuntu 20.04+ the whole Hibernate menu entry is missing and I tried once to jump through hoops to enable it, but I managed only to get the menu entry showing, but it was not hibernating.
    I guess Ubuntu devs are too busy to change themes and wallpapers on every release instead of fixing important stuff like this.
    KDE is better than GNOME in this matter. GNOME 3 didn't even have a suspend option in the menu until recently.

    When I first used GNOME 3 it was a real WTF. Sure on laptop, you close the lid and it will suspend, but what about desktops? Only option there is to change the default power button action to suspend and then press it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raka555
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post
    I don't need it faster, I need it working.
    On Kubuntu 20.04+ the whole Hibernate menu entry is missing and I tried once to jump through hoops to enable it, but I managed only to get the menu entry showing, but it was not hibernating.
    I guess Ubuntu devs are too busy to change themes and wallpapers on every release instead of fixing important stuff like this.
    I used suspend to RAM for years with various versions of Mint/Ubuntu and KDE neon.
    It always was like a lucky packet to open the lid of my laptop.
    I recently installed Kubuntu 20.04 and now I get a solid reboot every time I open the lid

    So, I am also in the "I need it working first" class.
    Last edited by Raka555; 11 October 2020, 01:13 PM.

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  • arQon
    replied
    Originally posted by kcrudup View Post
    Apparently 32GB of LPDDR4(x?) requires a fair amount of standby current, as if I leave it for 3 days I'm down to ~50% (Dell XPS 2-in-1 7390), but of course that implies the BIOS hasn't left something running in S3 (I manually block out XHCI and rfkill the radios on suspend, too).
    Yeah, that would be my guess too: some piece isn't actually suspending. Funnily enough, I saw an ad yesterday for some of this "always connected" BS that Intel and MS are pushing now, and realised that of course there are going to be times that even the current IME might well just ignore suspend, because, hey, it's the IME and what YOU want doesn't matter. sigh.

    I think your manual rfkill is an excellent idea, incidentally. I'm sure the IME will happily ignore it at will, but I can't think of a reason why it would try to drive the radios since it certainly shouldn't expect to be able to connect to any APs without user help. It WOULD obviously burn a ton of power if it supported WOWL etc, but it seems unlikely you'd have that enabled.

    RAM isn't my thing, and standby numbers for LPDDR4 are strangely hard to find, but according to this validation document https://www.electronicdesign.com/tec...dr4-and-lpddr4 it actually draws NO current when not driven. Even without that aspect though, it's very hard to imagine it burning any meaningful amount of power in standby when even non-LP DDR3 doesn't.

    So yeah, I think there's definitely something fishy going on with your laptop, and I think you've established what it is in a general sense: SOMETHING is ignoring the suspend and continuing to bleed power. Very annoying of it, and since you'll doubtless have already done all that CAN be done I guess it's likely to continue to do so forever. IME is certainly the most likely culprit, I'd imagine: especially "vPro" or whatever stupid marketing name it's carrying this week. But you have no control over that, so, bleh.

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  • kcrudup
    replied
    Originally posted by arQon View Post
    If your laptop "draws a lot of battery in suspend", it isn't suspended
    Apparently 32GB of LPDDR4(x?) requires a fair amount of standby current, as if I leave it for 3 days I'm down to ~50% (Dell XPS 2-in-1 7390), but of course that implies the BIOS hasn't left something running in S3 (I manually block out XHCI and rfkill the radios on suspend, too).

    Leave a comment:

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