Systemd 246 Released With Many Changes

[jacob]

What about running devuan bare metal and then on top of that your feature-full os version as a kvm-vm ?

And the point of doing that would be...?

[jacob]

different linux distro isn't enough of self-flagellation for you. go for different os

Yeah but no other OS in existence has the precious "init freedom" (whatever that means).

[jacob]

As usual, complete non-sense from the anti systemd crowd. Not sure why so clueless individuals feel such a strong need to have an opinion on something they don't know anything about.

It has been commented on many times that the cultural abyss between the pro-systemd and anti-systemd crowds is simply impossible to bridge, partly because their respective values and philosophies are totally alien to each other. To that extent the systemd debates are forever bound to be sterile and lead to nothing. However it seems to me that another point is nearly always missed here. The fact whether systemd should or should not have feature X or whether its implementation does or doesn't fit with someone's particular interpretation of some particular philosophy is almost tangential. The more fundamental issue is that systemd makes a shift from a sysadmin-centric view to a developer-centric view. With the traditional approach, the primary interaction with the OS is through a command line and configuration is by editing text files. With the new approach, the primary interaction as well as configuration is through APIs, of which the "systemctl" command and friends is only one client. Those who come from an Unix administration background hate it because they believe that its effect and/or goal will spell the death of a sysadmin culture they love and even ultimately make them redundant. Those who come from an application developer background like it because they feel that now they can develop Linux software that "just works" for the user like on Windows and Mac.

Or put another way, the anti-systemd crowd want Linux to be a *nix system. The pro-systemd crowd want Linux to be an open source Windows or MacOS. The antis have started using it BECAUSE it was based on shell scripting and "grep/sed/awk", the pros have started using it DESPITE that.

[F.Ultra]

https://www.phoronix.com/forums/foru...09#post1197909

https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1197685-systemd-246-released-with-many-changes?p=1197918#post1197918

I see that "cancel culture" is alive and well in these forums...

Thanks for showing that "cancel culture" isn't actually a real thing.

[guildem]

What about running devuan bare metal and then on top of that your feature-full os version as a kvm-vm ?

Because the goal of eventuality switching to another init system is to stick with KISS. I don't think using different distributions and vm by default is KISS 😅

[guildem]

why they would make more work for themselves to please some clueless people who can't do anything useful, but can complain on things they don't understand?

I'm not complaining, i'm arguing and you're complaining (it seems you do it a lot when the subject is systemd).

And that's actually my main concern about systemd : I don't understand it, and for it's goals (init) and the use I have of it, it is useless. So I would prefer the use of something easier to understand FOR MY HOST.
For lots of users, and different goals (init + system administration) and philosophy, I fits pretty well.

So I hope that maybe some day ArchLinux maintainers will have some need and solution to implement init system switching into the distribution without complexity.

[Karl Napf]

The more fundamental issue is that systemd makes a shift from a sysadmin-centric view to a developer-centric view. With the traditional approach, the primary interaction with the OS is through a command line and configuration is by editing text files. With the new approach, the primary interaction as well as configuration is through APIs, of which the "systemctl" command and friends is only one client.

I really do not see the fundamental issue you describe here.

Yes, systemd does come with more interfaces, but those are there to query details on the current system state. To define the actual system state you need to tweak a lot of text files and set some symlinks. Even the UIs I have seen to manage various aspects of systemd tend to add/remove/change configuration files and then trigger those to be re-read by some daemon process or something.

[starshipeleven]

If you go down that road, almost every distro out there is based in something..

I didn't say that. I said that Devuan is not adding anything that isn't already in Debian repos.

A good example is Artix linux that takes a distro that supports ONLY SYSTEMD (Arch linux) and adds support for script-based inits. They are actually doing real work. There is real value added.

Or Void Linux, where it's a completely independent distro with their own script-based init (runit).

Or even OpenWrt, that has their own custom systemd-inspired very light init

Ubuntu is Debian based,

Ubuntu is a joke, we can all agree on that.

LinuxMint is Ubuntu based,

They add stuff on top to make it more user-friendly, they also have their own GUI project, Cinnamon.

centos is redhat based,

centOS is the free version of RHEL, and that's the main reason it exists, it's the "free unsupported community version" of RHEL.

Scientific Linux is redhat based

And is also dead and they are migrating all their systems to CentOS because nowadays it has nothing to add to it.

[starshipeleven]

FreeBSD is a great distro, all my devices (recent and old, internal and external) work out of box.

So you got no laptops, and the newest graphics is from 3 years ago or is NVIDIA?

[starshipeleven]

I installed a systemd-distro on a old, slow laptop time ago. The fact is very often the login manager (a password is required to login) is bypassed without asking the password. It is a systemd BUG. The cpu is slow and the parallelized execution of command do not work properly. Never had this bug when I was using that exactly same distro on my PC wich has a much more powerful cpu.

Was that Ubuntu? Because it's an Ubuntu problem.

I've used OpenSUSE Tumbleweed (as it is still available in 32bit) on some crappy single-core Pentium 4 PCs with both KDE and GNOME (the integrated graphics supported OpenGL 2.0 so it was good enough), and I've never been able to bypass the login with either.