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F2FS Preparing To Introduce New "Secure Erase" Functionality

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  • F2FS Preparing To Introduce New "Secure Erase" Functionality

    Phoronix: F2FS Preparing To Introduce New "Secure Erase" Functionality

    A new feature that's been in development for a while with the Flash-Friendly File-System (F2FS) looks set to land with the forthcoming Linux 5.9 cycle...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...ure-TRIM-Erase

  • #2
    I know that F2FS is used on some smartphones, but is it only used on smartphones or is it used on laptops and desktops too?

    If not used on desktops, then why not?
    Modern smartphones usually use a UFS memory I think, and phones such as the ones from OnePlus and Huawei use F2FS.

    My desktop computer uses a SATA SSD with ext4.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by uid313 View Post
      I know that F2FS is used on some smartphones, but is it only used on smartphones or is it used on laptops and desktops too?

      If not used on desktops, then why not?
      Modern smartphones usually use a UFS memory I think, and phones such as the ones from OnePlus and Huawei use F2FS.

      My desktop computer uses a SATA SSD with ext4.
      Some distros have option use F2FS for OS. For example Manjaro, which i have on nvme SSD with F2FS. If you want it you can, but default is ext4.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by uid313 View Post
        I know that F2FS is used on some smartphones, but is it only used on smartphones or is it used on laptops and desktops too?

        If not used on desktops, then why not?
        Modern smartphones usually use a UFS memory I think, and phones such as the ones from OnePlus and Huawei use F2FS.

        My desktop computer uses a SATA SSD with ext4.
        Im using F2FS as my / partition on Arch Linux. I have an Intel Nuc with Intel J5005 and a Samsung EVO 850 250Gb SSD and it's works really well and fast.

        You only need to install f2fstools from pacstrap and have the /boot partition on ext4 for example (and the EFI partition for EFI boot too).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by uid313 View Post
          I know that F2FS is used on some smartphones, but is it only used on smartphones or is it used on laptops and desktops too?
          someone uses it, it can be used.

          If not used on desktops, then why not?
          SSDs used in desktop/laptops are running a FTL anyway as they must be able to run NTFS/Windows so the concept of "flash-friendly filesystem" is meaningless for such devices as is any performance difference with other normal filesystems.
          None cares about f2fs features so far as it has no snapshots and volumes.
          Everyone invested in server/desktop has already a puppy (btrfs, ZFS or Stratis)
          Last edited by starshipeleven; 07-14-2020, 08:46 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by uid313 View Post
            I know that F2FS is used on some smartphones, but is it only used on smartphones or is it used on laptops and desktops too?

            If not used on desktops, then why not?
            Mostly convenience, ext4 comes installed out of the box

            Originally posted by uid313 View Post
            Modern smartphones usually use a UFS memory I think, and phones such as the ones from OnePlus and Huawei use F2FS.
            Smartphones use eMMC (for their internal memory), UFS is for sd cards?

            Originally posted by uid313 View Post
            My desktop computer uses a SATA SSD with ext4.
            SSD's are not unlike eMMC, but they have more cache and can draw more power. most of F2FS performance benefits go away as the controller does more buffering and reorganizing writes.

            I am using either etx4 if I am to lazy to switch, or btrfs if I want snapshots. There is no reason you cant use F2FS instead of ext4, you even get some features like zstd compression on newer kernels. Id guess write-amplification will be lower than ext4, but thats hard to measure.
            Well, there is one reason, you will need to add fsck.mode=force or fsck.mode=skip if you use systemd, the fsck.f2fs tool works a tad different than others.

            Edit: ok Ive been wrong, UFS is also positioned to replace eMMC. Still scarce AFAIK
            Last edited by discordian; 07-14-2020, 09:17 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by uid313 View Post
              I know that F2FS is used on some smartphones, but is it only used on smartphones or is it used on laptops and desktops too?

              If not used on desktops, then why not?
              Modern smartphones usually use a UFS memory I think, and phones such as the ones from OnePlus and Huawei use F2FS.

              My desktop computer uses a SATA SSD with ext4.
              I use F2FS on my NVMe SSD (desktop computer). It is just a personal choice done on installation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Xorg View Post

                I use F2FS on my NVMe SSD (desktop computer). It is just a personal choice done on installation.
                Is there any benefits of using F2FS over ext4 on a desktop computer?
                Does NVMe SSD have a FTL? Does the FTL remove any potential benefits of F2FS over a traditional file system such as ext4 and btrfs?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                  Is there any benefits of using F2FS over ext4 on a desktop computer?
                  I choose F2FS over Ext4 for root file system because it looks like F2FS offers faster application load time (source).
                  Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                  Does NVMe SSD have a FTL? Does the FTL remove any potential benefits of F2FS over a traditional file system such as ext4 and btrfs?
                  Sorry, I don't know.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                    Is there any benefits of using F2FS over ext4 on a desktop computer?
                    Vanilla better or chocolade?

                    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                    Does NVMe SSD have a FTL?
                    Yes. You can nowadays be sure that a FTL is included unless its called "Nand" (raw big-capacity flash).
                    F2FS absolutely needs a FTL by the way.

                    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                    Does the FTL remove any potential benefits of F2FS over a traditional file system such as ext4 and btrfs?
                    Those are different file systems, especially btrfs I would not call traditional. Search for some feature matrices.

                    F2FS is designed to not do small writes (Flash can only erase blocks in the order of 2Megabyte or more, so the worst thing you could do is writing the same byte multiple times), benefiting flash, but having drawbacks (obviously). The more powerful a FTL the more it will accumulate writes before sending it to the Flash, it will need meta-data to restore the "view" of the PC aswell. F2FS does some of this by design, not needing "emulation" and the overhead in meta information.
                    You can compensate the performance with a bigger and fatter FTL, but the meta information needs to end somewhere, causing more writes compared to F2FS. But then a big cache might mean some writes never end up on flash.

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