Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

systemd 246-RC1 Released

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #11
    Originally posted by k1e0x View Post

    Systemd also needs syslog because alone it can't log to plain text and that is unacceptable.
    Unacceptable? Hmm, I do accept it somehow... must be some kind of black magic (c)

    Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
    Sysadmins do not like proprietary log formats.
    I fully concur. Proprietary formats must die. Though... this is kinda irrelevant to the discussion of systemd.

    Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
    If you want actual apples to apples then the end result needs to be the same.
    The end result is that I can view, analyze and archive my logs. That's the only end result that matters.

    Comment


    • #12
      Originally posted by andyprough View Post
      According to my handy little lines of code counter today:
      systemd - 1.4 million
      runit - 15.3k
      openrc - 33.7k
      s6 - 24.2k
      You're including documentation in at least systemd's line count.

      Comment


      • #13
        Originally posted by andyprough View Post
        It's just the output of a simple browser extension that claims to count lines of code, pointed at a main github page for each. One was a mirror on github, I think it was runit. This is no attempt at a meticulous comparison, just a quick look at those 4 github pages.
        I think we then should agree that the result of this quick look is completely useless.

        Comment


        • #14
          Originally posted by intelfx View Post

          Unacceptable? Hmm, I do accept it somehow... must be some kind of black magic (c)

          I fully concur. Proprietary formats must die. Though... this is kinda irrelevant to the discussion of systemd.

          The end result is that I can view, analyze and archive my logs. That's the only end result that matters.
          The problem comes down to being forced to use their tools to view the logs and not my tools. I don't only manage Linux, also FreeBSD and Solaris and until they all use the same thing, I need to use my tools. Also there is the problem of recovery of a binary file in emergency situations with failing equipment. Text is much easier to work with. Logs in a binary format can become corrupt and unusable. Even corrupt text is partly recoverable. I've also found a situation where a corrupt journald log prevented a system from being able to boot.

          This is really important to sysadmins when their bosses want real answers as to why something failed. Recovery and root cause are very important.

          Systemd team is often blind or "don't care" towards real working issues people have.
          Last edited by k1e0x; 07-09-2020, 01:01 PM.

          Comment


          • #15
            Originally posted by intelfx View Post

            I think we then should agree that the result of this quick look is completely useless.
            It's a discussion starter. Think of it like a 1.4 million line coffee table book.

            Comment


            • #16
              Originally posted by re:fi.64 View Post

              You're including documentation in at least systemd's line count.
              Probably so. Documentation is bloat.

              Comment


              • #17
                Originally posted by intelfx View Post
                Unacceptable? Hmm, I do accept it somehow... must be some kind of black magic (c)
                Copyright infringement - I'm calling my lawyer.

                Comment


                • #18
                  Originally posted by andyprough View Post
                  According to my handy little lines of code counter today:
                  systemd - 1.4 million
                  runit - 15.3k
                  openrc - 33.7k
                  s6 - 24.2k
                  Thats some hilarious bullshit numbers, I attached some more reliable ones from actual systemd,
                  and from some projects you will pretty much need to use if you are going to duct-tape everything with
                  shellscripts.
                  (note that systemd comes with a ton of tests and fuzzers aswell).


                  Code:
                  cloc /tmp/systemd-246-rc1
                  3849 text files.
                  3707 unique files.
                  1385 files ignored.
                  
                  github.com/AlDanial/cloc v 1.82 T=3.09 s (799.2 files/s, 255548.5 lines/s)
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Language files blank comment code
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  C 1027 117401 24769 403107
                  XML 363 17858 1842 80113
                  C/C++ Header 714 10739 13503 38049
                  Python 27 1521 6656 17311
                  PO File 29 4161 4546 12500
                  NAnt script 55 1080 0 9423
                  Markdown 41 1570 0 6845
                  Bourne Shell 153 1332 588 4896
                  HTML 7 103 3 3058
                  Bourne Again Shell 9 339 318 2007
                  Perl 2 69 40 1772
                  m4 13 66 0 898
                  CSS 1 15 7 325
                  XSLT 2 38 54 275
                  YAML 7 15 21 162
                  JSON 2 13 0 138
                  awk 9 0 0 93
                  Lisp 2 3 9 30
                  Dockerfile 1 9 12 16
                  SVG 2 0 0 16
                  make 3 6 7 14
                  sed 1 0 0 1
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  SUM: 2470 156338 52375 581049
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Code:
                  cloc /tmp/busybox-1.32.0/
                  2655 text files.
                  2029 unique files.
                  1702 files ignored.
                  
                  github.com/AlDanial/cloc v 1.82 T=1.33 s (715.4 files/s, 223698.5 lines/s)
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Language files blank comment code
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  C 673 27295 59828 178031
                  Bourne Shell 180 1575 1477 8799
                  C/C++ Header 67 1354 2567 6310
                  HTML 9 420 32 3934
                  C++ 1 166 62 1197
                  make 6 307 451 911
                  Glade 1 56 0 592
                  yacc 1 93 20 570
                  Perl 3 100 185 337
                  lex 1 40 12 303
                  NAnt script 1 84 0 260
                  Bourne Again Shell 5 51 94 234
                  Python 1 12 13 110
                  IDL 1 0 0 33
                  awk 1 2 8 30
                  bc 1 10 0 25
                  diff 1 1 8 15
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  SUM: 953 31566 64757 201691
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    OpenRC at 33.7k lines can do:
                    • Portable between Linux, TrueOS, FreeBSD, and NetBSD
                    • Parallel service startup (Off by default)
                    • Dependency based boot-up
                    • Process segregation through cgroups
                    • Per-service resource limits (ulimit)
                    • Separation of code and configuration (init.d / conf.d)
                    • Extensible startup scripts
                    • Stateful init scripts (is it started already?)
                    • Complex init scripts to start multiple components (Samba (smbd and nmbd), NFS (nfsd, portmap, etc.))
                    • Automatic dependency calculation and service ordering
                    • Modular architecture and separation of optional components (Cron, syslog)
                    • Expressive and flexible network handling (including VPN, bridges, etc.)

                    It isn't feature light. It can do all the state tracking, restarting, cgroup, limiting stuff systemd can. It doesn't have a DNS server in it though.. you know.. because you need that.
                    Last edited by k1e0x; 07-09-2020, 01:34 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Originally posted by k1e0x View Post
                      It isn't feature light. It can do all the state tracking, restarting, cgroup, limiting stuff systemd can. It doesn't have a DNS server in it though.. you know.. because you need that.
                      There is plenty of features in systemd init that have no comparable equivalents in other init systems and they are heavily used in production. It is frankly not close. As a quick example, dozens of security hardening toggles. Also systemd doesn't have a DNS server. Maybe you are confusing a resolver with a server?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X