Systemd 246 Is On The Way With Many Changes

[access]

The reason people say that is because the philosophy is for a program to be small, do one thing and do it well. Systemd does not fit that description unless by do one thing you mean run your entire system. It's also not an init system. OpenRC is feature rich, it also is "just and init" and it does one thing and does it well. It is as big of difference between vi and Microsoft Office.

Systemd is anything but simple too.. It is probably the most complicated thing in Linux. if you want honest to god simple try real Unix like FreeBSD. After install it boots up and runs about 10 PID's and you can easily know what each one is. You can know exactly what your system is doing just by looking at top. There is a lot of value in having a very very simple system.

For example: perhaps you need a NTP server. The box's entire purpose in life is to run ntp and nothing else. systemd seems overly complex for this as it manages the time itself, where as with FreeBSD you can slim that system down to maybe 64~128M of ram and that is all it does, it will take less than an hour to setup and it will run OpenNTPD till the hardware fails in ~20 years.

Is this simple enough?

[BenjiWiebe]

Is this simple enough?

That looks great. What distro is that?

[oiaohm]

The reason people say that is because the philosophy is for a program to be small, do one thing and do it well.

Except that philosophy really does not work because there is a problem with it.

if you want honest to god simple try real Unix like FreeBSD.

But is that the case that it follows that philosophy the answer is not going to be what you want to hear the answer is no its not.

https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd/tree/master/usr.sbin

There is a huge number of parts with freebsd that are built as part of the core source. Most of these parts are in fact about the same complexity as the individual systemd parts.

So if you want to push freebsd as example of what Linux system should look like.this would have 90%+ of the systemd as part of the kernel source.

After install it boots up and runs about 10 PID's and you can easily know what each one is. You can know exactly what your system is doing just by looking at top. There is a lot of value in having a very very simple system.

Linux with systemd is about the same. as https://www.phoronix.com/forums/foru...11#post1190811 shows. So that is not really a difference. You here this arguement a lot but its not in fact based in fact.

Systemd manages to be lighter in running PID than the prior sysvinit with consolekit. Yes in PID and memory usage of booted system systemd has brought Linux Distributions on average closer to the FreeBSD values. This is if you base your arguments on facts not wild presumes.

[access]

That looks great. What distro is that?

Debian. System image built with mkosi.

sudo mkosi -d debian -t gpt_ext4 -b --checksum --password password --package openntpd,vim -o image.raw
sudo qemu-system-x86_64 -m 512 -smp 2 -bios /usr/share/OVMF/OVMF_CODE.fd -net nic -net bridge,br=virbr0 -drive format=raw,file=image.raw

Networking handled by systemd-networkd and systemd-resolved and, as "required", NTP services by openntpd.

[F.Ultra]

For example: perhaps you need a NTP server. The box's entire purpose in life is to run ntp and nothing else. systemd seems overly complex for this as it manages the time itself, where as with FreeBSD you can slim that system down to maybe 64~128M of ram and that is all it does, it will take less than an hour to setup and it will run OpenNTPD till the hardware fails in ~20 years.

No, systemd does not manages the time itself. There does however exist a daemon called systemd-timesyncd that you can enable or disable as you wish that works as SNTP client.

[pal666]

and as few love systemd not many care ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

there exactly two such imbeciles in addition to you as of now

[pal666]

Those of us who take the time to educate ourselves about systemd's problems have so many better alternatives that we simply no longer care.

"i chased you for three days to say how indifferent you are to me"

[pal666]

So what ? .pid files are still necessary or people just do not write unit files correctly ?

by now it should be obvious that reading documentation is too hard for some people

[pal666]

Now I don't necessarily agree with systemd's anti-"The UNIX way" philosophy

systemd has pro-"the unix way" philosophy. but anti-"broken by design" philosophy

[pal666]

I'm sure it's just a matter of learning the new thing, but I have the opposite experience. I have Ubuntu 20.04 Multipass on my mac (just to play around with) and have yet to get the DNS or several other parts of the networking to even remotely work, and I don't have time to figure it all out.

that's ubuntu's fault, because for my distro everything works out of the box