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Some Open-Source Projects Begin Quickly Working Towards macOS ARM64 Support

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  • #41
    MS and Google still really keep all trumps.

    Consoles moved to x86 7 years ago, Apple is moving its computers to ARM, small potatoes. Linux ARM on phones sucks, if even exists.. and Linux small boxes is still quite limited lots of things are still not ported.. and these boxes havent enough raw horse power and good SW to emulate to anything that basic x86 apps and without same sort of emulation, will migration take very long time, if it will happen at all.

    Only if MS will release ARM build for normal customers and realtime instruction translation thing can starting to move -> desperatly needed stronger ARM cores, proper UEFI for ARM boards, proper input, outputs, more slots for addon cards, support of existing x86 addon cards on ARM board..

    Google can do it too, stop making Chromebooks for few people and really start to make laptop friendly options for Android x86 - proper application in windows mode, multiple monitors support, pc like taskbar etc.. Even few Android x86 develop can do it with some success.

    Until then ZZZ.. Apple will not help to open anything, they can even starting to use obvious standards like Vulkan.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by ruthan View Post
      Consoles moved to x86 7 years ago, Apple is moving its computers to ARM, small potatoes.
      Not exactly. 2006 Apple migrated from Power to x86. PlayStation 4 was 2015. Apple has migrated cpu types 4 times now. Motorola 68000 early apple this end up mirror in consoles about 10 years latter. Apple moves from Motorola in 1994 to powerpc. Powerpc game consoles appear after apple move that replacing Motorola cpu based ones.

      We see the same kind of trend with the Power to x86 by apple. Now if Apple remains the artist choice move to ARM could have effects.

      Originally posted by ruthan View Post
      Linux ARM on phones sucks, if even exists..
      It exists. https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ the pinephone photo there shows 9 different logos. Yes 9 different Linux phone OS options. Quite a few of those will in fact run Android applications as well as Linux native stuff.

      Originally posted by ruthan View Post
      Linux small boxes is still quite limited lots of things are still not ported.
      Not at limited as Windows on arm has been. Over 95 percent of debian is built for Arm this is only 3 percent behind 64 bit x86. So all that ported stuff does not require emulation.

      Originally posted by ruthan View Post
      these boxes havent enough raw horse power
      Like blender is ported to arm32 and arm64 under debian but you are serous-ally lacking cpu horse power in something like a raspberry pi 4.

      https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/blender
      Remember a lot of the small Linux boxes support having Debian installed. Lot of software in already ported for arm for Linux so this is quite a minor issue. Large issue on the Linux side is lack of horse power to run the already ported inside a cost effective solution. There are arm workstations using server class arm cpus that have like 900+ threads that cost over 30000USD each out there of course these are pure Linux high end workstations of course something like that runs heavy software like blender really simply but general consumer cannot afford these.

      Originally posted by ruthan View Post
      good SW to emulate to anything that basic x86 apps and without same sort of emulation, will migration take very long time, if it will happen at all.
      Big high arm workstations the overhead of qemu has not been a problem. IPC wise the cores used in the high arm workstation/server are over double that of what is in the raspberry pi 4 and running at higher clock-speeds than Rasperry pi also requires a really good cooling solution in the workstation arm systems yes something that makes the cooling solution on a overclocked x86 chip look lightweight..

      Originally posted by ruthan View Post
      Only if MS will release ARM build for normal customers and realtime instruction translation thing can starting to move
      High end arm workstation boards running Linux using qemu for realtime translation tell that realtime instruction translation is not going to be the best. What apple is doing with dynamic recompile that rebuilds the x86 executable into native arm is next best in performance compared to rebuilding the application native from source but comes with cases of completely breaking copy protection and anti-cheat stuff so applications fail because of this. Next best is what winehq side project hangover is doing where you attempt to reduce the dynamic translation area as much as possible by thunking out to native host code when ever there is a performance advantage to-do so. Tail of the hunt is of course realtime instruction conversion.

      Originally posted by ruthan View Post
      desperatly needed stronger ARM cores, proper UEFI for ARM boards, proper input, outputs, more slots for addon cards, support of existing x86 addon cards on ARM board..
      This is describing what starts in a few generation old Linux Workstation boards without the really strong cores. Like https://www.anandtech.com/show/12571...thunderx2-socs

      Yes your existing pci-e cards supported by Linux under x86 works in these systems including the likes if your Nvidia graphics cards. Yes Nvidia has recently released close source drivers for arm64 Linux that supports all there desktop cards it still only Beta driver but was basically the last hold out on hardware support with addon cards for the Linux workstations using arm64.

      The reality here everyone apple is doing now is a few years behind what Linux world has already done other than arm core performance.

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