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RHEL Deprecating The Virt-Manager UI In Favor Of The Cockpit Web Console

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  • #11
    Originally posted by microcode View Post
    Learn the libvirtd command line tools. They're as dope.
    will say though, loading a disk image for something obscure through a web interface definitely seems like a step backwards.
    I agree with you about the web. It's the direction that the world is moving at the moment, if you're not on web you're not "hip". Many projects moving from native to web-base has been a good thing in terms of portability and saving development costs, but...

    Native GUI spice client does a lot that CLI/WebBrowser typically doesn't support. For example passing keyboard/mouse to VM with custom keyboard bindings for release. I can press keys like ctrl+alt+del and nothing is passed to my host. It simply isn't practical to implement that functionality in CLI/WebBrowser. Device passthrough and quick USB redirects are also more convenient via native GUI in my opinion. Starting VMs or live backups is what id typically use CLI for, but the tools complement each other. That said I like to automate start/backups/cryptsetup functions and mostly rely on CLI for debugging.

    I shared my concerns on Reddit when they made the announcement a few months ago, but the community seems to enjoy silently down-voting my view points. https://www.reddit.com/r/VFIO/commen...d_in_favor_of/

    I don't have time at the moment to maintain virt-manager, perhaps I would pay someone to do that if I feel I can't go without it.

    Edit: Ignore my previous sentence, as per the first sentence in the post and re:fi.64. It's still being maintained ouside of RHEL.
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-26-2020, 11:21 PM.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Jabberwocky View Post
      Native GUI spice client does a lot that CLI/WebBrowser typically doesn't support. For example passing keyboard/mouse to VM with custom keyboard bindings for release. I can press keys like ctrl+alt+del and nothing is passed to my host. It simply isn't practical to implement that functionality in CLI/WebBrowser. Device passthrough and quick USB redirects are also more convenient via native GUI in my opinion.
      This is likely focused on where it's beneficial in headless deployments, such as at larger organizations or running services or thin clients.

      If you're using VMs on the same machine with a display output or small local network, especially at home, then something like virt-manager probably makes more sense. Cockpit would probably be a better choice if you have much larger infrastructure to support, a convenient web UI to manage that at a given address/subdomain from any machine that can connect to the network and authorized would be convenient.

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      • #13
        virt-manager is OK if you use a Linux desktop machine to administer it (but even then, you'd probably be ssh-tunnelling the UI traffic - needing an X server to do routine sysadmin on your VM guests running on a headless server host is never great). Web interfaces tend to make more sense than GUIs in this sort of scenario, especially if they can offer equivalent functionality e.g. virtual consoles for both guests and the host, real-time resource monitoring graphs/info and so on.

        I haven't looked at Cockpit yet, but if it's close to my preferred web-based VM hosting solution (Proxmox, which is pretty slick nowadays), then I wouldn't mind the move away from virt-manager.
        Last edited by rklrkl; 06-26-2020, 08:31 PM.

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        • #14
          It's seems like everyone forget that there is also Gnome Boxes. Of course it's not comparable to virt-manager, but it's enough "I run a few VM locally" use-cases.

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          • #15
            If I remember right cockpit needs to add a LOT of functionality to pull this off. But if they do it will make it a lot more interesting to people coming from the VMware world.

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            • #16
              I feel like a lot of people missed this part:

              [QUOT​​​​E]
              Outside of RHEL, virt-manager is still being maintained.
              [/QUOTE]

              ​​​​​This deprecation only applies to RHEL, and in particular, it doesn't apply to Fedora, which actively supports several technologies that RHEL does not (e.g. btrfs, KDE).

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              • #17
                maybe we could make a fake wrapper for [system-d and virt-manager] and rh will love it again ?

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by shmerl View Post
                  I'd need to run a web server to manage VMs now instead of a normal UI???
                  no, you don't. rhel will do it for you

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by re:fi.64 View Post

                    I feel like a lot of people missed this part
                    I feel like a lot of people here don't fully read articles and/or their source references. Or actually run RHEL/CentOS and understand what "deprecate" means in Red Hat's context.

                    Cockpit is a pretty useful tool, and capable of a lot of things. oVirt/RHV tie in with it, it can (supposedly) manage podman containers though I haven't tried that yet, integrates nicely with site authentication, allows easy access and viewing of system/service logs and controls, manage/view networking and storage, create custom images with Image Builder (composer), and makes it easy to bounce between systems from a UI standpoint. At my current employer my team is looking at potentially rolling it out as part of our standard imaging after I demoed it to them so that our ops and L1 teams (who may be less Linux-shell oriented, but are still capable) can have a simpler access point to check some logs, networking information, and restart specific services that are common culprits in our environment before needing to dive down into an ssh session. Oh, and a terminal for that is also supplied natively in the UI, ready to go.

                    If it's not already installed on your box, it's as simple as:

                    Code:
                    yum install cockpit
                    firewall-cmd --permanent --add-service cockpit
                    firewall-cmd --reload
                    systemctl enable --now cockpit.socket
                    Just don't use tcsh or csh as a login shell for your user, that won't work

                    Cheers,
                    Mike
                    Last edited by mroche; 06-27-2020, 01:10 AM.

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                    • #20
                      Virt-manager has it's share of idiocy. For example select a piece of hardware and want to modify it... need I say more?
                      However, Virt-manager just needs to be fixed and it works great for managing VM's for most use cases.

                      I can understand why they want to move to WEB. Todays GUI toolkits (GTK, QT and WxWidgets) are overly complex and does not provide a simple and efficient way to create a simple standarized GUI.

                      http://www.dirtcellar.net

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