Systemd 245 Released - First Version Including Systemd-Homed

[arokh]

Like I said, he should retire. If I hired this guy and found out later he couldn't migrate a script to systemd, I would fire him and consider reporting him to the police for lying on his resume. Very typical anti-systemd guy really, no arguments or knowledge of systemd but extremely opinionated. The entire industry moved _years_ ago to systemd, everything about it has been discussed to death already. Professionals already know it inside and out.

I was just speaking about the fact that systemd is not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center, and I explained why..

My favorite line. The only facts that can be deduced here is that he doesn't know what a fact is and has never been to a data center.

[computerquip]

Originally posted by computerquip,
It is not an "attack on people". People are giving you valid advice and criticism. You're deflecting because you don't know how to counter-argue.

wow, just wow, you are using the exact same technique as :
Originally posted by arokh View Post
This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument.


I was using valid arguments against homed, were this all started..
then we spoke about systemd in general vs SysVinit, and I just gave my opinion, taking in account my experience on it..

I presented valid arguments, but received the usual systemd group responses, or even advised to retire myself..
That is what we shouldn't be talking about on this thread sincerely..

I spoke also about Environment variables because a lot of products use them, to set/tune things, was only a point that I touched..
someone spoke about importing them, to what, a Global space?
would be great analyzing it from a security perspective..

You haven't read my comments for sure..if we have 20 or more service users, its because of privacy concerns, and separation of roles..
I was just speaking about the fact that systemd is not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center, and I explained why..
If you don't understand, don't came on me telling that I am "deflecting because I don't know how to counter-argue".

I believe we should end this conversation, because its start to go in a wrong way, you are even responding to a reply that I made to another user..

This is a forum, if you can't handle criticism or care to provide any reason behind your claims, then expect to get shut down. A lot of people won't take kind to you spreading FUD.
Your first post was:

Well,
The fact that not everyone approves the way things are done in systemd, doesn't mean they are wrong..

In fact it could mean they are right..
Systemd tried to simplify a lot of things , complicating tones of them in the process..

I understand that a lot of folks wannabe GNU/Linux experts, and I understand that should exist a way to lower the bar for them..

Ubuntu born for that,
The majority of real professionals, had take a lot of effort to educate themselves sufficiently enough to work on GNU/Linux, the problem is the new coming people are too much MS Windows aware, and not prepared..

I understand that they glorify Systemd, but his adoption on the server is were the problem resides..

Which is a response to someone pointing out horrible incoherent arguments... which you defended. You basically did the exact same thing you claim people are doing to you by calling people who criticize systemd "wannabe GNU/Linux experts".

The whole problem here is that you *aren't* presenting valid arguments. People are pointing that out to you and you don't really seem to care. Instead of trying to figure out why people like systemd so much, you just cry that you're the victim.

Hell, if people actually took the time to make coherent arguments, I'd probably be on board with them. The problem is that they don't, they instead point to non-arguments or make arguments from ignorance. And I quote:

With Systemd, I need to rewrite it, and still create separated name.services files for each one..crazy.. and ones depend on the execution of the others..

A blatantly false statement. You don't need to do that. You haven't explained why you need to do that and every time someone brings it up, you seem to dance around it. You haven't provided an actual reason.

This is why I think you're not a professional. You adhere to FUD, you're clearly uneducated in a field that you claim to be an expert in for 20+ years. Either you're abhorrently bad at argument, you're not a professional at all, or you need to do a better job at keeping up with your field.

[arokh]

I was using valid arguments against homed, were this all started..
then we spoke about systemd in general vs SysVinit, and I just gave my opinion, taking in account my experience on it..

I presented valid arguments, but received the usual systemd group responses, or even advised to retire myself..
That is what we shouldn't be talking about on this thread sincerely..

Which valid arguments? You haven't presented a single one actually.

I spoke also about Environment variables because a lot of products use them, to set/tune things, was only a point that I touched..
someone spoke about importing them, to what, a Global space?
would be great analyzing it from a security perspective..

And here's the essence of your posts, incompetence. You don't even know how the software function, how could you have any opininons on the security of it?

You haven't read my comments for sure..if we have 20 or more service users, its because of privacy concerns, and separation of roles..
I was just speaking about the fact that systemd is not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center, and I explained why..
If you don't understand, don't came on me telling that I am "deflecting because I don't know how to counter-argue".

Again, you haven't explained why. Systemd handles scripts and environment variables. Not tailored to big/complex installations? Do you realize how silly that sounds? Probably not.

I believe we should end this conversation, because its start to go in a wrong way, you are even responding to a reply that I made to another user..

I totally understand that you want to end discussions, especially considering it's becoming blatantly obvious that you actually have zero experience or knowledge about the product.

[dr_atomic]

This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument.

Well, anyone can see your profile, but from the top of the list:

Strange times we live in, suddenly there's a lot of raging noobs on the internet opposing innovation and software development.

So basically what you are saying is you are incompetent and can't comprehend simple documentation or learn new things?

You should probably not be running Linux, or even operate a computer.

now you can put your script in there shut up and get off the internet talking about stuff you have no clue about.

I love systemd, it's best feature is moving all the nutjobs over to BSD/Devuan.

See, I'm just putting your words into your mouth, you tend to forget what you said quite fast apparently.

Happy user of systemd, wayland and pulseaudio here. They work excellent for all my use cases.

That is you too.
Not everyone is happy with systemd and not everything works in each and every case regarding systemd, which was stated by many competent people, with experience and knowledge, here and outside of Phoronix. Do you remember, for example, Lamest Vendor Price for systemd and Poetterin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwnie_Awards

Using anything different that systemd is not a sing of incompetence or mediocrity.

[tuxd3v]

Originally posted by computerquip,
It is not an "attack on people". People are giving you valid advice and criticism. You're deflecting because you don't know how to counter-argue.

wow, just wow, you are using the exact same technique as :
Originally posted by arokh View Post
This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument.


I was using valid arguments against homed, were this all started..
then we spoke about systemd in general vs SysVinit, and I just gave my opinion, taking in account my experience on it..

I presented valid arguments, but received the usual systemd group responses, or even advised to retire myself..
That is what we shouldn't be talking about on this thread sincerely..

I spoke also about Environment variables because a lot of products use them, to set/tune things, was only a point that I touched..
someone spoke about importing them, to what, a Global space?
would be great analyzing it from a security perspective..

You haven't read my comments for sure..if we have 20 or more service users, its because of privacy concerns, and separation of roles..
I was just speaking about the fact that systemd is not tailored to big/complex installations on data-center, and I explained why..
If you don't understand, don't came on me telling that I am "deflecting because I don't know how to counter-argue".

I believe we should end this conversation, because its start to go in a wrong way, you are even responding to a reply that I made to another user..

[computerquip]

well, that is exactly what you have done, with me..
People that dislike something, are not by design. people without knowledge( or needing retirement.. )..

In Fact only people with knowledge can indeed dislike something,
Because they know the good, the bad , and the ugly of something..

Your statements part from the beginning that, if we don't like something its because we are not Professionals or Informed people..
Which is completely wrong,
And that line of thinking is the one you( as a group of people ) have been using since the beginning..

But it is more an attack on people than anything else..

It is not an "attack on people". People are giving you valid advice and criticism. You're deflecting because you don't know how to counter-argue.

• Why don't your scripts run through sysv-compat?
• If that doesn't work (which it probably would), why can't you wrap your scripts in simple service files?
• systemd is not there to replace your daemon script necessarily, it's there to *manage* your daemon. How it manages to do that is up to you. It just so happens to be able to replace a lot of simple use-case daemons that do basically the same thing as a hundred or more other daemons do.
• If you feel attacked, I can see why. But you need to look at it from another perspective. You're spreading FUD while claiming to have "20 years" of experience in your field. Just based on your ignorant posts alone and based on my own professional experience, I'm going to naturally question that claim.

EDIT: Honestly, I could answer technical questions even if you have them. None of your posts are actually technical points against systemd though. Your only claim is about environment variables which don't even apply to you since they're apparently handled by your shell script. systemd doesn't need to manage that for you.

[tuxd3v]

This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument.

well, that is exactly what you have done, with me..
People that dislike something, are not by design. people without knowledge( or needing retirement.. )..

In Fact only people with knowledge can indeed dislike something,
Because they know the good, the bad , and the ugly of something..

Your statements part from the beginning that, if we don't like something its because we are not Professionals or Informed people..
Which is completely wrong,
And that line of thinking is the one you( as a group of people ) have been using since the beginning..

But it is more an attack on people than anything else..

[Danny3]

In a distro with thousands of packages, there's always multiple $AWESOME_THING just around the corner. If they'd keep waiting for those they'd never get a release out of the door.

You're right, but some packages are more important than other so in my opinion the kernel, systemd, MESA, Xorg, Wayland should be always the latest version possible and the others can wait or be updated later.

[arokh]

He's already posted new info that you cannot refute, so you reply to his original comment in an attempt to feel superior. But your two comments back to back just make your look silly.

I still haven't read his follow up comments, and even if I had it wouldn't invalidate what I commented. In other words, your assumption makes yourself look quite silly.

I looked at your posts, most of the are personal attacks on people who have different opinion on things than you. Your view on systemd is basically that everyone should just love it and embrace it, otherwise they should go somewhere else and die.

This is what's called putting words into someone's mouth, which is a weak and manipulative person's attempt to win an argument. I could do the same and say that this being your 2nd post here is likely due to you having created a second account to support your other account's opinions. But that would be silly now wouldn't it.

As you can clearly see in what you posted, it was not a personal attack but a "professional" one.

Who gave you the right to claim things like that? Someone should retire? Is unable to do something in your very limited and primitive opinion? You are the finest example of a troll, who is close-minded and intolerant.

I'm a professional too, so technically that does give me the right. What he's saying is the equivalent of a plumber who can't plumb, or a boxer that can't box. He said he's a 20+ years professional and tries to paint a picture that systemd somehow can't do the same, or makes it difficult to do the same that his script does. This is factually incorrect. While I can understand him being frustrated just at having extra work due to his distribution of choice having made the switch, it's actually what his job is. Technology evolves, learning new things and adapting services is a normal and every-day part of a sysadmin's job. Adapting does become tiring though (I only have 19 years professional experience myself), but I would actually rather retire than argument against a great open source innovation on a technical forum due to my own laziness. So yeah, my comment that he should retire is completely fair game.

[k1e0x]

Systemd works nice in Desktop environments, or in virtualization servers like vmware, or with containers.. for complex environments it doesn't feet.

I totally feel your pain as a sysadmin.

Doing anything custom with systemd? Forget it.. We moved most of our stuff to FreeBSD.