Outreachy Applications Open For The Winter 2019 Round

[ZeroPointEnergy]

Women are not born thinking "oh computers aren't for women" or with any less preference than men, it's society that shapes and pushes them in other directions because of stereotypes and injustices.

No, there has been actual research about this and there is a clear difference in that males are on average more interested in things and females more in people. There is probably an evolutionary reason for this. That doesn't mean that there aren't woman that are interested in computers or engineering in general, they are just rare compared to the men that are interested in this fields. It has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence or that one sex would be better at this, it is simply a matter of choice.

Most women I work with in tech actually find things like Outreachy insulting, because it makes it look as if they need help to do the same thing men are doing. And I completely agree with them.

So not only is this organization openly racist and sexist, it is actively hurting the people they try to help.

[moilami]

Wow, getting paid to work on coding projects related to Gnome. Sounds like an interesting opportunity!

Oh never mind, I’m a white male... Wait, what if I’m part indian? Will you love me then, Outreachy?

"White man bad." And this is not racism I heard.

[tildearrow]

Wow, getting paid to work on coding projects related to Gnome. Sounds like an interesting opportunity!

Oh never mind, I’m a white male...

Let's dye our skin.

[cynical]

Wow, getting paid to work on coding projects related to Gnome. Sounds like an interesting opportunity!

Oh never mind, I’m a white male... Wait, what if I’m part indian? Will you love me then, Outreachy?

[ParticleBoard]

I'm not sure why this racist and sexist organization is still being advertised for here.

Agree completely, there is some news on here I don't like but feel I need to know eg. "Microsoft Teams Is Coming To Linux" (embrace extend extinguish and all that). Outreachy is the epitome of everything these pathetic "progressives" stand against, it's just that who they are bias towards is socially acceptable if not encouraged.

Outreachy is both racist and sexist. a program for only white males would be hated by all, but a program that is against white males i.e. outreachy is loved by all. both are bad and should not exist.

You need to reaccess how you are manipulated to think. Why would "a program for only white males would be hated by all", I see stuff like black girls code, women/feminist that-and-that etc all operate with impunity but if a white person started one that is the one example universally considered to be bad. I guess if you read and believe the endless stream about "nazis" waiting around every corner... Really lends a lot of credence to the whole repeat everything until it's taken as truth.

A place I worked at not long ago had a woman that ran a "black girls code" outfit, of course true to form she couldn't program anything herself (and used more buzzwords in normal conversation when talking to devs that I have ever seen a human being use). I'm against these places on principal but I never brough it up. Eventually she approached me and asked if I would teach there. My reply was along the lines of "why would I help you run something that would otherwise turn me away at the door, you can go fuck yourself". I don't mince words when dealing with the parasites in this industry and nobody else here should either.

[Britoid]

The only thing wrong is your assumption that males and females have the same preferences.

Women are not born thinking "oh computers aren't for women" or with any less preference than men, it's society that shapes and pushes them in other directions because of stereotypes and injustices.

That to me, isn't right. But equally, I don't think saying "to combat this, we'll create environments where only those under-represented in the field are allowed" is right either. I'd rather Outreachy help anyone that wants help working on an open source project who might not be able to otherwise.

Somewhat annoying is that people go around saying anyone who doesn't agree with them an ist, tech-bro or showing 'white privilege'.

[gabber]

e.g. I agree that there's something wrong in that the computing field is completely dominated by white men (I'm one too), when the population is fairly evenly divided between male and female,

The only thing wrong is your assumption that males and females have the same preferences.

but yet there is nothing about computing that makes white males any better at it.

Who said better? Males simply prefer computing, like females prefer other fields. No Outreachy Program for Kindergartenteacher, is there?


We are a sexual dimorphic species, let's embrace this and not try to force things because we feel it should be different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_psychology#Intelligence

There are differences, and one is not better than the other.

[tildearrow]

Look. Women are not "under-represented". They apparently are, but actually are not.
They just want to do other things and don't feel like coding.

Better to have quality code than 50% males and 50% females.

[schmidtbag]

I only argued about the validity of thinking like that, not that you cannot do so.

But the validity is not up to you to decide. It can be valid. I take your point that it often isn't, but, it's not so black and white.

Yes but it makes no sense to do so.

I mean, everyone agrees to big vague motives like "everyone should feel good" and "cars should be better and cost less", or "IT should have more black strong independent trans women". What does that add.

So... you're saying it doesn't make sense to seek improvement?
If not, why can't people agree something can be made better while disagreeing with a proposed solution? What is invalid in that way of thinking? You are inserting your opinions into this, which doesn't help solidify your point.
Like I said before with the car example - just because you'd like to see something happen, doesn't mean it will. But, that doesn't make the desires invalid either. Just because there isn't a currently known solution, doesn't mean there isn't one and that the solution can't be sought after. Otherwise, why do we bother trying to solve the questions we have about the universe, such as dark matter or quantum physics?

And that's where I said that you are spindoctoring. It makes no sense to pull ideals in a vacuum because it does not add anything, it only runs the risk of fooling you.

In what way am I pulling ideals into a vacuum? I'm not asking for your opinion here because frankly I don't care about it. I'm asking for an objective reason.

no. I mean that you can fool yourself into not evaluating well all the solutions.

Sure you can, but your tone suggests that's the only possible outcome, which is blatantly false.

that does not work for shit and is counter-productive.
But for many it does not matter, because "oh look, a good motive!".

And that's the reason why people like Britoid do not agree with the method.
As for "many", yes, that's a good word. There's an important distinction here:
In one category, you have people who say "I agree with the motive and although I'm not a fan of the solution, I'd like to see this succeed".
This is very different from people who say "I agree with the motive, but the solution is a step in the wrong direction and there needs to be an alternative".
Many people fall under the first category, but not everyone. Had you made this distinction from the beginning, we wouldn't have this argument. The thing is, you made it pretty cut and dry that everyone was the first category, or else you wouldn't have disagreed with Britoid (who, as far as I'm concerned, fell under the latter category).

[starshipeleven]

Oh, so you do see my point then?

I only argued about the validity of thinking like that, not that you cannot do so.

I get that. Just because you can agree with a motive, doesn't mean your judgment is clouded. ... you can agree with a motive while disagreeing with a proposed solution.

Yes but it makes no sense to do so.

I mean, everyone agrees to big vague motives like "everyone should feel good" and "cars should be better and cost less", or "IT should have more black strong independent trans women". What does that add.

everyone agrees that a faster and cheaper car is a good thing

And that's where I said that you are spindoctoring. It makes no sense to pull ideals in a vacuum because it does not add anything, it only runs the risk of fooling you.

Are you suggesting that you will be judged poorly because you prefer a different solution to an acknowledged problem?

no. I mean that you can fool yourself into not evaluating well all the solutions.

With Outreachy, there's a motive to a known situation most people would agree exists (again, whether or not it is a problem I'm going to get into) and there's only one proposed solution.

that does not work for shit and is counter-productive.
But for many it does not matter, because "oh look, a good motive!".