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F2FS Is The Latest Linux File-System With Patches For Case-Insensitive Support

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  • #11
    Originally posted by discordian View Post

    Tthat falls flat on its face when using removable storage, as every computer would need that family group with the same numeric gid, and similary uids could mean different users. `deluser --remove-all-files hugo` would run over the mounted storage, remove everything with the same uid even if it was karl's files.

    It would work fine with removable storage. There aren't any effective UIDs/GIDs on the file system with an NTFS file system when you are doing what I said. The uid, gid and umask for every file/dir on the filesystem are all whatever you specified in fstab. So it doesn't matter where the NTFS file system came from or what other computers it has been used on.

    Checkout:

    man mount

    search for: Mount options for ntfs

    Look at the options labeled: 'uid=value, gid=value and umask=value'

    You are applying a fixed uid, gid and umask to the entire file system. So any ntfs removal device you plug in and mount using your fstab rules would end up in the family group on your computer.

    As for the UID part of what you said. It doesn't matter too much who you make the uid. You could make a user account just for this purpose. It's the gid that's important.

    Note: my solution isn't intended for removal storage. It just so happens that it would work perfectly for it. My solution was about creating a shared area on a computer that all family members can freely use without consideration of permission issues (other than them knowing: everyone in the family can read and write here).
    Last edited by cybertraveler; 19 July 2019, 07:49 AM.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post

      Could you say what were your issues?
      I can't remember now. All I remember is that it wasn't fool proof. Some common thing people would do with files and folders wouldn't work gracefully with it, or it was easy for people to break it.

      I wanted a solution where I could literally tell family members: "this is a shared area" and they wouldn't have to know anything beyond that. I remember the sgid bit solution required people to know certain things about permissions. The mounted NTFS filesystem solution was perfect.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post

        It would work fine with removable storage. There aren't any effective UIDs/GIDs on the file system with an NTFS file system when you are doing what I said. The uid, gid and umask for every file/dir on the filesystem are all whatever you specified in fstab. So it doesn't matter where the NTFS file system came from or what other computers it has been used on.
        I missed the NTFS bit, the point would be to allow ext4 et all to work in a similar fashion.

        Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
        Note: my solution isn't intended for removal storage. It just so happens that it would work perfectly for it. My solution was about creating a shared area on a computer that all family members can freely use without consideration of permission issues (other than them knowing: everyone in the family can read and write here).
        NTFS is unfortunately dog slow (big part probably because of FUSE), I use a exfat partition to share data between Linux/Windows (there is a rather convenient setup for dkms: https://github.com/dorimanx/exfat-nofuse).
        There is a problem with Linux filesystems and the stored uids when using as removable drive. What you described is some rather common setup with a "public group folder", you dont need NTFS for that.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post
          I can't remember now. All I remember is that it wasn't fool proof. Some common thing people would do with files and folders wouldn't work gracefully with it, or it was easy for people to break it.
          Again, I never saw that happening.

          I wanted a solution where I could literally tell family members: "this is a shared area" and they wouldn't have to know anything beyond that. I remember the sgid bit solution required people to know certain things about permissions. The mounted NTFS filesystem solution was perfect.
          SGID only needs to be set by the folder owner (or root) once, then it just works.
          Creating a "shared area" with forced group permissions is the entire point of the SGID bit, saying it does not work properly is a strong statement that should really be backed up by something, imho.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by discordian View Post
            I missed the NTFS bit, the point would be to allow ext4 et all to work in a similar fashion.
            Yeah, that would be nice.

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            • #16
              starshipeleven - i just had a play and I think just found one of the issues.

              I copied an empty directory 'foo' made by one user into that setgid folder 'bar'. My empty dir, 'foo' had no group write permission set at the time I copied it. As another user I then tried to copy a random file into the 'bar' dir. That works as expected. I then tried to copy a random file into the 'foo' subdir: fails: permission denied.

              It could be I'm missing something that would resolve that issue. If I'm not, I consider the setgid method to be insufficient for my purposes.

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              • #17
                starshipeleven - I just found another issue. I copied a file into the setgid dir as user A. As user B I then moved the file on user B's desktop. The file on the desktop now has the owner and group of user A.

                Again: I may be missing something. If not, this is extremely broken for the purpose of making a shared area for typical family members to all read and write to. It's going to result in them having to mess around with permissions or them getting permission errors.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                  Again, I never saw that happening.

                  SGID only needs to be set by the folder owner (or root) once, then it just works.
                  Creating a "shared area" with forced group permissions is the entire point of the SGID bit, saying it does not work properly is a strong statement that should really be backed up by something, imho.
                  The permission also depends on umask so typically only ro sharing would work. Also it’s not recursive is it? Ie if user A creates a sub folder that’s not going to be setgid by default.

                  huh apparently it is recursive, but the umask issue seems to be present.
                  Last edited by nivedita; 19 July 2019, 10:15 AM.

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                  • #19
                    Let's face it: multiple letter cases were a mistake. They're a boondoggle formality with no real reason to exist. Oh, I have to use THIS different flavor of the same glyph to begin my sentences, proper nouns, I, acronyms, or emphasis? I applaud any efforts that strive to boldly deliver us from such vestigial hangovers from a darker age, however deeply-woven in the fabric of our sclerotic system they may be.

                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    Every day we stray further from God's light.
                    Oh my god, colored emoji rendering support when?

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post

                      I can't remember now. All I remember is that it wasn't fool proof. Some common thing people would do with files and folders wouldn't work gracefully with it, or it was easy for people to break it.

                      I wanted a solution where I could literally tell family members: "this is a shared area" and they wouldn't have to know anything beyond that. I remember the sgid bit solution required people to know certain things about permissions. The mounted NTFS filesystem solution was perfect.
                      Have you considered Dropbox?

                      Good luck using it on Gnome though.

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