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systemd Clocks In At More Than 1.2 Million Lines

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  • #71
    Originally posted by discordian View Post
    Anything can be solved in one line. You just have to start writing faaaaar to the left
    Only on proper languages. You can't do that on Python for example, because it's a shit language.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      Duh, really? Fact you did not know something does not render alternatives void.
      Init systems, alternative:OpenRC, runit, upstart
      Service managers: daemontools, runit has (compatible with daemontools btw) service supervision tools, freedt.
      There are some language extensions, which can do service monitoring/managing (Perl's Ubic or Python's Circus for example). Some Linux distro even ran Python executable instead of SysV init executable and all it's services were managed by Python scripts.

      It's very funny how it's 'easier' to re-invent huge behemoth of a wheel..
      I do know about OpenRC, runit, upstart...
      Did you know these only do a tiny fraction of what SystemD does?
      Something has to do the rest...
      Fact is, there are no solutions for said 'rest'. Unless you consider Python executables a reliable alternative. I mean, we're talking something that works at least as well as SystemD, right?
      I wish i didn't have to use SystemD, but given the current state of affairs i'd rather use it than not...

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      • #73
        Originally posted by nomadewolf View Post
        I do know about OpenRC, runit, upstart...
        Did you know these only do a tiny fraction of what SystemD does?
        Something has to do the rest...
        Fact is, there are no solutions for said 'rest'. Unless you consider Python executables a reliable alternative. I mean, we're talking something that works at least as well as SystemD, right?
        I wish i didn't have to use SystemD, but given the current state of affairs i'd rather use it than not...
        Wide majority of users only need to use tiny fraction of it. In fact, when you are common desktop user, chances are good that your experience would be exactly the same with or without. And lots of "what else systemD does" is also covered by alternative utilities or could be if need be. User base is sufficient that necessary discrete utilities would be developed. Or had already been developed but users were just too lazy to either use those or make themselves aware of the possibilities.

        Approach in a form of 'giant re-invented wheel in a walled garden' is probably the worst that could have been taken. It kills off the endless mutability of x86/x86_64 Linux distros, leaving only systemd/Linux (dictated by IBM devs and their corporate interests). Give it some more yeas and all you can differentiate distros by is graphic themes. Welcome to Lindows 10 - pun with 10 intended, endless iterations of new package versions with very little other variability. And breaking out of the vicious circle would be extremely hard. Well, it's already, shimming systemd components are being made intentionally hard.

        Anyway, as a BSD user I welcome all the systemd refugees, lol.

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        • #74
          I feel like I walked into a Ford vs Chevy argument on a car blog. For those in Europe, that would be a Merc vs Audi argument.

          In the UK that would be a Tory vs Labour since the UK doesn't have any native car brands anymore since Rover died.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by aht0 View Post

            Wide majority of users only need to use tiny fraction of it. In fact, when you are common desktop user, chances are good that your experience would be exactly the same with or without. And lots of "what else systemD does" is also covered by alternative utilities or could be if need be. User base is sufficient that necessary discrete utilities would be developed. Or had already been developed but users were just too lazy to either use those or make themselves aware of the possibilities.

            Approach in a form of 'giant re-invented wheel in a walled garden' is probably the worst that could have been taken. It kills off the endless mutability of x86/x86_64 Linux distros, leaving only systemd/Linux (dictated by IBM devs and their corporate interests). Give it some more yeas and all you can differentiate distros by is graphic themes. Welcome to Lindows 10 - pun with 10 intended, endless iterations of new package versions with very little other variability. And breaking out of the vicious circle would be extremely hard. Well, it's already, shimming systemd components are being made intentionally hard.

            Anyway, as a BSD user I welcome all the systemd refugees, lol.
            BSD is pretty much abandonware at this point, long dead os, systemd or not.

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            • #76
              Originally posted by aht0 View Post

              Wide majority of users only need to use tiny fraction of it. In fact, when you are common desktop user, chances are good that your experience would be exactly the same with or without. And lots of "what else systemD does" is also covered by alternative utilities or could be if need be. User base is sufficient that necessary discrete utilities would be developed. Or had already been developed but users were just too lazy to either use those or make themselves aware of the possibilities.

              Approach in a form of 'giant re-invented wheel in a walled garden' is probably the worst that could have been taken. It kills off the endless mutability of x86/x86_64 Linux distros, leaving only systemd/Linux (dictated by IBM devs and their corporate interests). Give it some more yeas and all you can differentiate distros by is graphic themes. Welcome to Lindows 10 - pun with 10 intended, endless iterations of new package versions with very little other variability. And breaking out of the vicious circle would be extremely hard. Well, it's already, shimming systemd components are being made intentionally hard.

              Anyway, as a BSD user I welcome all the systemd refugees, lol.
              Completely not true, as a common desktop user you're going to be benefiting from systemd whether you notice it or not, the best example I can think of is native udev intergration.

              e.g. we don't need a bluetooth or wacom service if we don't have this hardware, udev does this. udev/systemd rules are also used to make sure GNOME doesn't start using Wayland on hardware that doesn't support it.

              You're also benefiting from the much faster startup times. Even Apple got rid of BSDs launch system and made their own because it was just terrible, and that's the largest install base of BSD.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by Britoid View Post
                Completely not true, as a common desktop user you're going to be benefiting from systemd whether you notice it or not, the best example I can think of is native udev intergration.
                It's true from the perspective of desktop user in a sense: unless he HAS to poke it, it would work either way. Difference is only for distributors and guys who actually have an active interest poking things under the hood.

                Originally posted by Britoid View Post
                e.g. we don't need a bluetooth or wacom service if we don't have this hardware, udev does this. udev/systemd rules are also used to make sure GNOME doesn't start using Wayland on hardware that doesn't support it
                So you are justifying 1,2m LOC monster's existence with a functionality achieved elsewhere with a fraction of code? I could do that with devd in FreeBSD. And systemd nowhere to be seen.
                Don't tell me about 'native'. Linux is a jiggzaw puzzle around kernel. Only piece native is it's kernel..

                Originally posted by Britoid View Post
                You're also benefiting from the much faster startup times. Even Apple got rid of BSDs launch system and made their own because it was just terrible, and that's the largest install base of BSD.
                Hmm.. Do I? 1m30s - 5m timeouts when systemd randomly bogs down are slower than SysV init ever managed. Sometimes it's a configuration error in distros, sometimes it's race condition in systemd, sometimes it's dbus fucking up. And that happens often.

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                • #78
                  the amount of clickbait in the title is beautiful

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                  • #79
                    In the "old days" linux was for power users only - People that understood or wanted to understand how things work.
                    Linux was very user friendly, but it was picky about it's users.

                    Then came the drive to bring linux to the masses.
                    Slowly but surely they took away the character of what was "linux" to make it more "windowsy", so that people with limited capacity can still feel at home.
                    The current state of "Linux" is a bunch of bloated applications trying to mimic windows.

                    Systemd is just another (albeit huge) step towards taking control away from power users.
                    If you like systemd you are not a power user, you are just someone who wants a free OS.

                    Sadly the power users have to start looking elsewhere.
                    I recommend they look at "Alpine linux" and "Void linux"
                    I won't even recommend Devuan since its based on Debian, who has lost its way.

                    The world urgently needs a new OS.
                    I suspect that if that OS ever sees the light, it will be written in zig.


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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by ThiagoCMC View Post
                      Like, WHAT A F*** IS GOING ON?!?! How this garbage is in a "stable" Debian release?!?!?!

                      I'm already planning to move to Devuan.
                      I have been there. I'm linux user since 1999. I survived a time blocking systemd in Debian but some months ago problems began so i take the step. There is a guide for migrating from stable. I did one for migrating from testing:

                      (English and // y EspaƱol) From Debian testing to Devuan testing without reinstalling // De Debian testing a Devuan testing sin reinstalar
                      https://www.yours.org/content/-engli...o-73502321e197

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