Systemd 241 Paired With Linux 4.19+ To Enable New Regular File & FIFO Protection

[Vistaus]

Doesn't Linux share the UNIX philosophy that "everything is a file"? Which would mean that everything belongs in some kind of filesystem tree?

UNIX? I thought that was the RISC OS philosophy?

[starshipeleven]

Don't get me wrong, I know things like this can happen on Arch and rolling release distributions in general, but the fact that so many bugs made it past the testing repos...I'm more upset it made it past testing than I am of systemd itself...

That's exactly what I'm saying, I was also additionally pointing out that there are other sane rolling release distros that don't let this happen, besides Gentoo which isn't for everyone.

FWIW, Gentoo is still on v239 as well.

Not surprised, they are not a "bleeding edge for the sake of it" distro unlike Arch

[malkavian]

Not using OpenRC, also too much butt hurt and too little actual work in doing what is basically a different Debian default package setup.

At Devuan you can choose Sysvinit or OpenRC. My Debian systems try to force me to install Systemd, i have to block that packages because i don't want. Devuan developers make the work I just need, so they do a great job for me.

Today the Debian Systemd packager resigned mainly because the stupid developing model of Systemd. Poettering said that they have no time to resolve bugs and packagers should patch and use stabilized versions. I don't want that in so important piece of my systems. Bugs should receive more attention than adding more features. Be happy with Systemd, and let me be happy with OpenRC.

[Candy]

Today the Debian Systemd packager resigned [...]

Is this announced somewhere ?

[NotMine999]

And this philosophy is so overused that it collapses soon enough when we need to read something from /sys or /proc.. Everyone is implementing parsing of same text files over and over to get data that should be binary to begin with.

It was probably binary to begin with, but we all know how some programmers have issues parsing binary file positions. You know, those lovely programming errors that introduce security flaws to a system because people forgot or don't know how to "code safely & securely".

Making a text representation from binary data held within the OS, which /sys is supposed to be "in theory", simply makes that data easily readable at the console; no fancy programming required.

But something tells me that you only use a GUI and are completely freaked out, at a total loss as to what to do, when you see a CLI.

[NotMine999]

At Devuan you can choose Sysvinit or OpenRC. My Debian systems try to force me to install Systemd, i have to block that packages because i don't want. Devuan developers make the work I just need, so they do a great job for me.

Today the Debian Systemd packager resigned mainly because the stupid developing model of Systemd. Poettering said that they have no time to resolve bugs and packagers should patch and use stabilized versions. I don't want that in so important piece of my systems. Bugs should receive more attention than adding more features. Be happy with Systemd, and let me be happy with OpenRC.

citation please showing the resignation

[NotMine999]

nobody gives a damn, when people are multiple times told that the are spell somehting wrong it's their decision to stop doing so or accept that people think they are just dumb

https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/
Spelling

Yes, it is written systemd, not system D or System D, or even SystemD. And it isn't system d either. Why? Because it's a system daemon, and under Unix/Linux those are in lower case, and get suffixed with a lower case d. And since systemd manages the system, it's called systemd. It's that simple

WOW!

All that hate in just a few lines!

Who burnt your coffee (kaffe?) this morning?

[malkavian]

citation please showing the resignation

I read the resignation here: https://lists.freedesktop.org/archiv...ry/041971.html

And more info in this spanish blog:

https://blog.desdelinux.net/debian-s...a-desacuerdos/

[skeevy420]

That's exactly what I'm saying, I was also additionally pointing out that there are other sane rolling release distros that don't let this happen, besides Gentoo which isn't for everyone.

Not surprised, they are not a "bleeding edge for the sake of it" distro unlike Arch

Oh I know Gentoo isn't for everyone. I did give Tumbleweed an honest try, but it just really wasn't my thing. I needed just enough crap from outside their repos, all in different user repositories, that it was a bit of a hassle. I suppose I could have learned their build system and made my own custom repository with everything I needed...but anyhoo, I'm the kind of weirdo that would rather use & learn Gentoo due to seeing Clear's benchmarks since Clear doesn't support everything and Gentoo does. And my system is one gen too early for Clear...that kinda forces my hand with Clear and Solus to an extent.

That "not a bleeding edge for the sake of it distro" is exactly why. New for the sake of new isn't always the best. Not all of us are like debianxfce.

[starshipeleven]

At Devuan you can choose Sysvinit or OpenRC.

Both are provided and maintained by Debian project. https://packages.debian.org/stretch/openrc

My Debian systems try to force me to install Systemd,

As I said that's just a default, Devuan's work is basically respinning an ISO with different default package selection during installation.

They started with much loftier goals than that, but they didn't make it, so that's all they are now.

Poettering said that they have no time to resolve bugs and packagers should patch and use stabilized versions.

That's not what he said. And yes I know this is the mail you read wrong (or someone translated wrong to you) https://lists.freedesktop.org/archiv...ry/041959.html

He said that distros should NOT expect latest upstream releases to be 100% amazing and bug-free on release day.
He said that fixing bugs takes time and effort so you can't expect to get a dev to write fixes around the clock to save your downstream users from breakage in a new release.
He said that so you should NOT use latest upstream releases as-is without doing some QA (testing and quality control) and making sure they are stable first. Which is what Fedora/RHEL (the employers of core systemd developers) do with their own distro.

And more info in this spanish blog:

This is the actual github issue it is talking about, so we can look at the whole story.
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/11436
we can see that Pottering himself shows up, summons other members, discusses the issue as a civil being, and then they eventually take the right choice for the future and then closes the bug report with a commit that reverts the commit causing the issue reported.

3 full days after the bug was reported. Omg why it took so long, think of the children.

Be happy with Systemd, and let me be happy with OpenRC.

The issue here is people posting bullshit to give some bigger justification to their otherwise unimportant choice.

As I said I have nothing against OpenRC (I recommended good and reputable distros using that), but people posting bullshit annoy me.