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Dbus Broker 17 Released - No Longer Depends On Glib, Better Isolation With Systemd

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  • #71
    Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
    Now imagine,
    A particular application that is massively deployed, and its the only one approved by that country, they work with SysVinit Systems of course...
    Does you think they will develop for SystemD?

    Of course NOT
    The of course NOT is false presume. We are seeing items design for systemd only that use to have sysvint scripts. Service management turns out to be important in multi service services. We have seen some that use to release freebsd and Linux versions of their services now only releasing Linux with systemd unit files only. If the developers of that application decide that service management like systemd provides is more important than supporting sysvinit systems sysvinit support will disappear and worst at times cross platform disappears as well.

    Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
    I know the exact prices to pay, for some critical services when they are down in some Countries, and a very known case, it costs 1 million €/ hour, of fines from the Government, if that services are down for an hour, this is an example in one of the countries I work with..
    This is exactly why we are seeing the change in critical multi service services. The cgroup wrapping of systemd allows you to be sure that all parts of a service have been stop so there is no random part left running jamming up service restart as sysvinit and upstart suffered from.

    Why solaris stayed alive as long as it did was party due to SMF that is a another service manager. Systemd and SMF from solaris have a lot in design common. Commerical Unix systems have have integrated service managers into their boot process for quite some time.

    The reality here is that sysvinit needs to die. If you like the sysvinit script style you need to make openrc fully functional with cgroupv2 support or some other replacement that includes a proper service manager.

    Please note there is a prototype of openrc that uses sysvinit and systemd unit files.

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    • #72
      I try to resist, but sadly i will have to abandon Debian after 18 years using it, and a year trying other distros. Devuan is great, and maybe I am just being too romantic...

      Systemd work and development philosophy doesn't fit with my expectations neither for my personal use, nor for the servers I manage.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
        I think freedom...it not for everybody...Get used to it
        Uh, no. Other uses reported problems, so this is not case of the evil, evil SJW's taking over and censoring everything. But don't worry, they could do that tomorrow. Sleep with one eye open.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post

          So you have a uptime of about an year, and you thing that is good?
          That says a lot about your comment to address the faced problems discussed..
          so you don't reboot after kernel/glibc updates?
          that says a lot about your qualifications - you don't have one

          3.10.0-957.1.3.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Thu Nov 29 14:49:43 UTC 2018
          Last edited by hreindl; 01-02-2019, 11:00 PM.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
            Now imagine,
            A particular application that is massively deployed, and its the only one approved by that country, they work with SysVinit Systems of course...
            Does you think they will develop for SystemD?

            Of course NOT,
            The risk when that application is deployed could cost them 1 million/hour plus my company work( to solve the problem, when service is down )..
            There seems to be a lack of Responsibility or mature enough people, managing that type of projects..
            Now imagine - everybody but you knows how to provide HA and testing before deployment

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            • #76
              Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post

              No it was NOT implicit Agreed by all...
              What is that of implicit agreed?


              Are yo joking?
              It was forced down on us, with some RedHat Trojan Horses in Debian voting in favor...
              But they don´t represent the majority of Debian code base, not even close.
              !
              that must be why so many distributions are using it, contribute to development with 1300 people of different companies and distributions, all trojan horses from a world conspiracy and all the independent software projects implementing systemd-units and support for Type=notify and socket-activation i guess are a part of it too

              go and get your meds
              Last edited by hreindl; 01-03-2019, 12:10 AM.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by hreindl View Post

                Now imagine - everybody but you knows how to provide HA and testing before deployment
                What is the part you haven´t understood?
                I am not talking about webservices, that are constantly deployed, haven´ t you figured that already?
                I am talking about STABILITY.

                A new product has always its dropbacks, bugs to solve, and takes years and years, to mature, at this scale,
                And no company that provides this types of services, will take the risk of 1 million€/per hour, of downtime plus technical disaster recovery, because that would mean bankrupt, in less than nothing!

                I am speaking of RISK calculation here...you don´t even know what I am talking about,
                I am not speaking about your personal website, with minimal impact on downtime..

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post

                  What is the part you haven´t understood?
                  I am not talking about webservices, that are constantly deployed, haven´ t you figured that already?
                  I am talking about STABILITY.

                  A new product has always its dropbacks, bugs to solve, and takes years and years, to mature, at this scale,
                  And no company that provides this types of services, will take the risk of 1 million€/per hour, of downtime plus technical disaster recovery, because that would mean bankrupt, in less than nothing!

                  I am speaking of RISK calculation here...you don´t even know what I am talking about,
                  I am not speaking about your personal website, with minimal impact on downtime..
                  go away with "RISK calculation" when you wrote "So you have a uptime of about an year, and you thing that is good?" which means you don't apply security updates properly proven by the simple fact that every distribution out there with security support at least 4 times per year pushes kernel updates

                  do what you want, others are capable to cope and can restart nodes without downtimes because an application as important as you pretend has redundancy and no downtime even if a physical node burns down in flames



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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by hreindl View Post
                    do what you want, others are capable to cope and can restart nodes without downtimes because an application as important as you pretend has redundancy and no downtime even if a physical node burns down in flames
                    Like I said, I am not talking about your personal website,
                    I am not talking about websites neither, you are using http or small databases backends has an example...its what you know.
                    Another ones here gives examples os small apps self contained with no real risk impact, above the average well known risck factor for any basic application..

                    Your knowledge about business, is very limited, and there are tons of things behind what you think that are the real scale business.
                    And like you there are a ton of users that thinks the same, because they think that their website or their desktop application has its the maximum risk...
                    They don´t know more about...

                    And this is what I already said, that the Project managers that manage systems like a Init one, have no clue, what they are messing with..
                    They look at an Init as a desktop thing... when that init will be then placed in the real risk places, were they don´t feet..

                    Its pure incompetence..

                    Linux haven´t grown up in the desktop, Linux is deployed in datacenters for a lot of high risk business now.
                    The idea of bringing it to desktop, is killing the real business in datacenter...look to Microsoft, its an example.
                    We don´t have Microsoft products in Risky places, only end users..

                    Aix, Solaris and some Gnu/Linuxs,
                    But there are already a lot of talks running inside the company, that maybe Linux is starting to be NOT ready for prime time... which lets me very very said, Gnu/Linux used to be rock solid,
                    With the revolutionary aproach changing things like the Init completly,( for the worst ), the SysAdmin cannot solve problems that before were possible to be solved, without down time, now we are systemd dependent, that makes a lot of magic things in the meadle, and we have downtimes with that..and dowtime for us means millions per hour

                    Gnu/Linux, come to substitute some Aixs, and I was very happy, but it came because the systems had the reliability that the SysAdmin knowledge allowed, and so they were always at maximum reliability, because of that, Linux gaines a reputation, that could be used in critical places..
                    Now SystemD is the meadle man, that do things, we don´t want it to do, and when something starts to misbehave, you cannot recover the same way.

                    We are in a dead end,
                    I will not proceed this discussion further because its very difficult to speak with someone, that is, or Desktop focused, or small low risk business oriented.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
                      We are in a dead end,
                      I will not proceed this discussion further because its very difficult to speak with someone, that is, or Desktop focused, or small low risk business oriented.
                      we are in a dead end since you opened your mouth because you have no clue what you are talking about given that many if not most features of systemd are for servers and datacenters but stubborn guys like you always having their mouth open without any knowledge - systemd has nothing in common with Windows and you really should take your meds and stop talking about things you never bothered to really learn


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