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The Linux Kernel Adopts A Code of Conduct

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  • Originally posted by msotirov View Post
    Have you actually read the comments in this thread? It's everything but sane critique of the actual text of the Linux CoC. I was referring to all the nonsense like this guy's comment (see below). It's the same kind of trolling you see from the actual alt-right (i.e. real white supremacists).
    If you think being against something as fundamentally flawed as CoCs tend to be makes you a white supremacist then you probably should get off the internet for a few weeks and try to get a grip on yourself. Because that's some astoundingly idiotic logic, or rather lack thereof.

    When you call people something with a stigma as strong as "white supremacist" as haphazardly as you are, you're diminishing the power of the term by normalizing it. It's a term that (unfortunately) needs to exist, but making it meaningless only serves the people that actually deserve to be described using it.

    Seriously, if you're not going to be constructive and instead just insult people you disagree with, at least try not to help white supremacists while you're at it...
    "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."

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    • Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
      If you think being against something as fundamentally flawed as CoCs tend to be makes you a white supremacist then you probably should get off the internet for a few weeks and try to get a grip on yourself. Because that's some astoundingly idiotic logic, or rather lack thereof.

      When you call people something with a stigma as strong as "white supremacist" as haphazardly as you are, you're diminishing the power of the term by normalizing it. It's a term that (unfortunately) needs to exist, but making it meaningless only serves the people that actually deserve to be described using it.

      Seriously, if you're not going to be constructive and instead just insult people you disagree with, at least try not to help white supremacists while you're at it...
      So you chose to completely ignore my comment and instead assume what I think? Again, read the comments I was referring to. They do not mention the CoC at all or just barely. It's just nonsense about biological gender or that there isn't any discrimination in IT etc.

      I hope you also see the irony of calling me out on (supposedly) insulting people and then calling my logic "idiotic" (an insult).

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      • I think the overarching concern in this thread is attacks on one's person rather than there code.

        "In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation"

        Including some other parts of the CoC could be replaced with "Avoid character attacks. Attack the code instead."

        That would be something that we could all work on (Linus included) that fixes many of the concerns both pro and anti SJWs have. If someone submits shitty code, feel free to tell them how much you hate there code. If someone talks about religion it may be off topic, yes, but a distinction needs to be drawn between attacking an individual and ideology. For example, refusing to speak to someone about code/something relevent to linux because of there religion should be looked down upon.

        There are some things I do like about the current CoC such as,
        "* Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
        * Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
        * Focusing on what is best for the community
        * Showing empathy towards other community members".
        Mostly commen sense though, bringing me to my next point.

        How should we enforge all this? What is the point of a CoC if it is not enforced? It might be a good idea to put the enforcement procedures in the CoC its self.

        Edit: There is an enforcement section but all it says is "...will result in a response that is deemed necessary and appropriate to the circumstances..."
        Last edited by triangle; 17 September 2018, 03:44 PM.

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        • Originally posted by jukk View Post


          Do I understand you correctly, in that programming language has a definite meaning (that is obvious, or compilers would interpret results differently each time), but human language has no meaning, so you can basically ignore everything, harassments etc?
          You got me completely wrong. My compiler tells me that I wrote bullshit everyday. And it's damn right. It just uses other words. Using other strings to communicate with me doesn't mean any other message. Harassments and offendings are in my opinion something that a person induces in his or her mind, by interpreting communication as being hostile without reason.
          But when there is no reason, why would you care about it? Then it is indeed completely meaningless, a wrapper for emptyset, so it has the same attributes like spam.

          When there is reason to be hostile toward you because you are endangering something then you should of course try to interpret the message and try to do better to stop hostile reactions.

          It's not that it was without reason to show people that their patches are crossing a line they don't like to cross. The words weren't wrappers for empty set but a constructive warning to post patches from the view of the Linux project in the future, instead of someone else's view.
          When it wouldn't be allowed to differentiate the wording in order to show how critical the situation is it would simply decrease the ability to communicate with people. So the chances increase that people don't understand you, and I expect bad patches to be submitted multiple times, until people hopefully understand that they aren't just badly written, but the whole idea is bullshit. Why shouldn't you call it bullshit when it's exactly this?

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          • Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post

            And he did a good thing. There are only men and women and developers are usually men. Non specified 'others' can gtfo.

            Ps. You can notice some jewish like surnames welcomes this crap:

            https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/17/514

            Steigerwald, Isaacson, Obermeier.
            If these are your opinions, please go back to whatever cave you came from and spare us from this utter bullshit. My forefathers were forced to make war with people of your opinion. That time they got rid of the scum and people thougth they got rid of the plague. What the f***k is going on these days????

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            • Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post

              And he did a good thing. There are only men and women and developers are usually men. Non specified 'others' can gtfo.

              Ps. You can notice some jewish like surnames welcomes this crap:

              https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/9/17/514

              Steigerwald, Isaacson, Obermeier.

              ANd your point is?.... that the jews are behind this? Come on give the jews a break. This is why parts of COC could be a good influence on the way code is reviewed in the kernel forums. Throwing shit at certain ethnic groups or genders is plain silly, it basically mean you don't know any jews or lack company with the gender you criticize. Though I must agree on the two gender policy. I find the third a bit silly.

              At the same time, SJWs, should go and review their own attitude as well. A friend of mine got hired in Norway. He is a coder, and also has a tad of Asperger/autism specter. No ordinary firm would hire him, but he is a briliant coder. So why?, well many get offended when he had outburst, or didn't understand the social norm/setting. So then these SJW would basically keep him out of work, with their views.
              But thankfully he got hired by a firm that only hires autism/asberger-coders. And its become the firm for bugtesting software in scandinavia. www.unicus.no.

              So when dealing with a code of conducts that does not take into account other peoples "disability" this is just silly. I think it should be revised again.

              Kind regards
              Brut.
              Your friendly linux neighbor.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jukk View Post

                If these are your opinions, please go back to whatever cave you came from and spare us from this utter bullshit. My forefathers were forced to make war with people of your opinion. That time they got rid of the scum and people thougth they got rid of the plague. What the f***k is going on these days????
                You are also being un"welcoming" (line 20) and dis-"respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences" (line 21).
                You are not "Showing empathy towards other community members" (line 24).

                As you can see, the code of conduct, if applied to this forum is easy to break.

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                • Originally posted by msotirov View Post
                  So you chose to completely ignore my comment and instead assume what I think? Again, read the comments I was referring to. They do not mention the CoC at all or just barely. It's just nonsense about biological gender or that there isn't any discrimination in IT etc.
                  From what I saw most of the comments do lambast CoCs and the culture that has spawned most of them. It may not be 100% on-topic, but at least we've yet to invoke Godwin's law and gone completely off the rails (well apart from that one anti-semite troll). Calling out your "Disliking CoCs makes you a white supremacist"-nonsense is hardly ignoring what you're saying when that's exactly what you're doing in the post that I initially replied to.

                  I hope you also see the irony of calling me out on (supposedly) insulting people and then calling my logic "idiotic" (an insult).
                  It's one thing to call people "white supremacists", a term with a stigma almost as powerful as "pedophile", for no valid reason and another to call it out for what it is, completely and utterly idiotic.

                  I genuinely dread what's going to happen once very serious labels like "white supremacist" and "misogynist" have been over-used to the point where they lost their teeth as to carry a stigma as weak as "chauvinist" (thou most of what's labelled as "misogynist" these days, including everything Trump says and does relating to women, is better described as that). Come to think of it, it's a term so rarely used these days I'm starting to wonder if it's even part of peoples' vocabularies anymore or if people avoid using it because they're not sure how it's spelled.
                  Last edited by L_A_G; 17 September 2018, 03:49 PM.
                  "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."

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                  • The flames raging in this thread.... they are so beautiful... (teary eyed)

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                    • Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                      I genuinely dread what's going to happen once very serious labels like "white supremacist" and "misogynist" have been over-used to the point where they lost their teeth as to carry a stigma as weak as "chauvinist" (thou most of what's labelled as "misogynist" these days, including everything Trump says and does relating to women, is better described as that). Come to think of it, it's a term so rarely used these days I'm starting to wonder if it's even part of peoples' vocabularies anymore or if people avoid using it because they're not sure how it's spelled.
                      You should have said earlier you don't think what Trump says is misogynist, then I would have known what I'm up against and wouldn't have wasted my time responding to you. Very well done. I almost fell for the civil way in which you excuse alt-righters.

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