A Proposal To Update Ubuntu's Kernel/Mesa/GNOME Components On A Monthly Basis

[GI_Jack]

Absolutely not. 6 months is not a long time to wait. Stable releases should never break API/ABI, and should release only point releases with bug fixes for all software.

An exception can be made for top level users apps like chromium/firefox, but NOT for core libraries like kernel, mesa, or the DE. This could break a users customization, or even third party apps.

Or better yet, you can use a PPA/third party stuff.

If you really want/need rolling release, use Arch Linux. You'll see what a joy it is, especially bumping major versions as they are released stable. It has its advantages, but also its issues, and often requires expert attention to resolve errors. Not recommended for either general consumption, or for production boxes.

Ubuntu has a short term release cycle that assures updates will not break the system, giving the best results for either novices, or those without the dedication or time to fix a broken system. STR is the best idea for a "Just Works" desktop system that needs constant upgrades.

Rolling Release is for experts. Use an expert distro if you need this. Don't break Ubuntu for the n00bs

[Nth_man]

> kernel module api is unstable by design.

As it was written time ago:

In the article of http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/stabl...Fnonsense.html it was explained that: Linux does not have a binary kernel interface, nor does it have a fixed kernel interface. Please realize that the /in kernel/ interfaces are not the /kernel to userspace/ interfaces. The kernel to userspace interface is the one that application programs use, the syscall interface. That interface is _very_ stable over time, and will not break.

The author of the article, Greg Kroah-Hartman, says that he has old programs that were built on a pre 0.9something kernel that still works just fine on the latest kernel release. This interface is the one that users and application programmers can count on being stable.

[starshipeleven]

I like the Windows model better, where the drivers are pushes as regular updates. DirectX is updated too.

??? Windows model is "we at MS update the OS whenever we feel like it, if your hardware vendor does not push an updated driver to address any breakage we cause, then fuck you" with Windows 10.

As I understand video drivers have Mesa, X, DRI and kernel components.

They can get away with updating only the kernel or only the userspace (X and Mesa), the kernel driver is mostly for hardware support, bulk of a GPU's job is in Mesa.

[starshipeleven]

Exactly. We need a stable kernel API. There’s really no way around it. Hardware enablement is the closest you can get to timely driver updates.

Opensource drivers are always in sync with the kernel (being in the same source code repository).

Even keeping an out-of-tree driver in sync with the kernel API is not difficult at all.

[pq1930562]

??? Windows model is "we at MS update the OS whenever we feel like it, if your hardware vendor does not push an updated driver to address any breakage we cause, then fuck you" with Windows 10.

And that happens how often?

[starshipeleven]

And that happens how often?

Randomly, but generally every major update it's safe to assume they will break something. Tier 1 hardware vendors like AMD and NVIDIA and Intel publish driver updates soon enough, but many PCs have more hardware than just that, especially in workplaces, and it's getting fucking tiring having to babysit this crap again.

I've had plenty of clients using various addon cards break or become unstable (Delock and such, also cheaper ones like Hama), or that can't communicate anymore with industrial equipment over the manufacturer's USB driver, VMWare Virtualization software on Mac (Fusion) did have a fit over one of the major Windows updates and required an update (was showing a black screen for updated windows guests). Also laptops with dual graphics are sensitive to breakage.

Here we get some Linux-style regressions in drivers https://www.howtogeek.com/298940/mic...matic-updates/

A guy with a laptop with dual graphics and NVIDIA drivers https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...4-6136d9920aef

A guy with a newish usb wifi dongle breaking with latest update https://www.tenforums.com/network-sh...r-useless.html

A guy with Autodesk Vault server that got hit by breakage https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/vault...r/td-p/7572666

An article that lists various issues of Win10's latest release, I focus on the driver part. https://www.windowscentral.com/windo...reators_update

And if you know how to google you can find all articles you want. You can ignore the reality and think Windows is the land of stability and that stable Linux kernel ABI will save us, but that's all fantasy.

Windows had its golden age with Windows 7 that also got blessed with very little "feature updates" due to Windows 8 push, so it was very low-breakage, but with Win10 we are back on track.

[pq1930562]

And if you know how to google you can find all articles you want.

If you would know how to google, then you would know about the following settings and stop whining:

https://filedb.experts-exchange.com/...settings-2.png

[tegs]

In the end, there should only be two releases considering how fast things move these days like Mesa. Remove the naming (like artful) and version numbers and just have:

- Ubuntu (monthly releases until the end of time)
- Ubuntu LTS (snapshots that are updated every 2 years)

[DrYak]

I've recently migrated my gaming machine from Arch to Fedora because I wanted a more curated experience and got tired of small issues. {...} But now the 4.15 kernel is around the corner there's some regret because I really could do with HDMI audio through my 480. My choices are:
{...} - Go back to Arch

Yet another possible solution : try experimenting with openSuSE Tumbleweed.
- It's also a rolling distro (hence the name) just like Debian Testing, Arch, Gentoo, etc.
- In my experience, it's better curated than Gentoo and Arch, a lot less breakage when new versions arrive (but that means that the arrival of new kernels will lag a tiny bit behind the upstream vanilla. Still a couple of weeks later, you should get it into your installation.)
- It has a good ecosystem of third party repositories ("open build system", similar to Ubuntu's PPA, Fedora's COPR), very well integrated into an automatic build system ("open build system", much better than Fedora's Koji).

- Learn about compiling my own kernel

For the record, that's not as difficult as it sounds.
(Hint: start by importing your current settings from " /proc/config,gz ", so you more or less have the same configuration in your new kernel as in the older).

None of those seems appealing. I don't think the majority of people who run rolling-release distros need rolling release for every piece of software. I couldn't care less if I'm running an older version of my file browser. The advantages of rolling release for me are the kernel and mesa, everything else isn't a priority.

That's why I've settled for a rolling distro that is a tad bit less aggressive than Gentoo / Arch.

[Ladis]

Windows had its golden age with Windows 7 that also got blessed with very little "feature updates" due to Windows 8 push, so it was very low-breakage, but with Win10 we are back on track.

Desktop Windows is not a priority for Microsoft anymore (the profits are decreasing - unlike the new profit streams; don't forget it's not about % of PCs with Windows installed, but about % of new PCs and devices sold with Windows - there's Microsoft much weaker so they decided to sell their software on other OSes already). So they don't want to spend much workforce on it. This way with Windows 10 they created a rolling up distribution and simply make all their software (web browser, Skype, OneDrive, Office UWP, DirectX, ...) for the latest release of Win 10 only (do you know the first version of Win 10 already stopped getting security updates? http://www.zdnet.com/article/reminde...fter-march-26/ ) It's also easier for 3rd party software makers - they need to test only in the "Windows 10-current". The intermediate period will end soon (Win7 stops getting security updates in 2 years and Win8 will die in the eyes of the software makers together with it, the same as Vista died together with XP - whoever upgraded from Win7 to Win8 upgraded later to Win10 anyway as the hardware drivers support is the same).