The First Alpha Of Debian 10 "Buster" Installer

[leech]

Gnome3 is never ready and at end of the day experienced gnome3 users are tweaking it look like Xfce. All roads lead to the Xfce look and feel, like in this tweaked kde disto.
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?i...0170904#nitrux

Gnome3 is designed for retarded people by retarded people. Gnome3 is bad for the Linux community, when a user can not create a launcher to the desktop, the image of a distribution is spoiled.

Wow, really? I don't really consider myself retarded. I use Gnome 3 every day for work and play. It stays out of my way, which is what a Desktop Environment should do. I don't really use any extensions, and it just works. Pretty sure that with the exception of Xubuntu, not a single distribution uses XFCE as it's default desktop, at least none of the most popular ones do. Personally I'd rather go back to wmaker or enlightenment than use XFCE...

[leech]

For what it's worth, I think the reason why some state 'Standard Desktop' is Gnome is because it kind of is. All the Enterprise Workstation distributions use it by default, as does Ubuntu, Debian, etc. There are certainly far more that do use it as it's default desktop environment vs anything else out there. This wasn't always the case to be sure. I remember when KDE had hit version 1.0, no gnome to compete with, then 2.0, gnome got a bit better. Then with 3.0 KDE became this huge mess, which is why they rebuilt it with 4.0.

[timofonic]

CSD looks stupid though. It looks dumb, literally dumb. Like they want the the interface to look like it is a retarded version of itself. That's the impreession I get from all apps that were ported to a CSD style interface. You can tell just by comparing itself with its older self.

Welcome to Mozilla Chromefox

I don't understand all this CSD hype, really. I see it as a step backwars. Window Managers and Desktop Environments should control the looking of the apps, not the apps itself.

you'll need to drop Gnome then seeing it was late to the party coming after KDE

KDE sucks too. It's very broken, KWin is buggy as hell. Only some apps deserve some merit, like Spectacle for making screenshots (I believe other DE should make an app like that and they would get extra interest if adding screencasting like in SimpleScreenRecorder but with more and better default profiles)

[grok]

How I hate lazy fanbois like you.

For those that want to have a look at some screenshots of CSD Firefox, you can find some here in the feature tracking report https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1283299

I like its new look, finally it isn't wasting the whole top bar for nothing, but is using it for the tabs. The addon I'm using to do so (that will probably stop working in FF57), will finally rest in peace.

And yes it does work in KDE too (see screenshots and the description), because KDE can disable the title bar (now made redundant) with an option (right-click on the bar -> "more actions" -> "special application settings" -> "Appaearance and fixes" -> "no titlebar and frame").

I need the title bar because it displays the title, letting me know what page I'm on. For example :

The First Alpha Of Debian 10 "Buster" Installer - Phoronix Forums - Mozilla Firefox

I'm confident it will be an option for years to come, works that way under Windows Firefox. (I had to go in about:config)
For that matter Firefox 57 doesn't kill the standard "File Edit View...", or I think so since I saw it on screenshots. In fact even Microsoft allows it in "UWP" applications, having backpedaled from 100% tablet-like WinRT applications.

One of the main reasons I don't use Windows anymore is very petty : window titles are aligned to the left (and the fonts in Windows 7 are ugly to me). I grew used to a centered title. By the way, tab's title is "[favicon] The Firs" or "[favicon] The First A"

I am sure many need to save space on a 16:9 laptop, even if losing the title. That's fine too. As long as it's not mandatory. See, if I wanted to be constrained to arbitrary non standard GUIs and lack of choice I would probably be running Android and Windows 10 + Chrome like all the "idiots" on this little world.

[grok]

Another little factoid : I mostly gave up on customization, e.g. gtk theme or weird layouts. But I found changing only the window border helped me. You can use the Mint theme with the window border of another theme (i.e. mostly title bar and window buttons), even if you apt-get installed the entire another theme. At least so with Mate. Mint has a dozen themes actually : Mint-X, Mint-X-Orange, Mint-X-Blue, Mint-X-Yellow and whatever. All 99% the same, except they also set your third party window title bar's color.

I have a frustation-free system then but you can all keep jumping at each other's throat, at least that's better entertainment than what's on TV.

[lucrus]

While I like XFCE a lot and use it for everyday work and while I agree with something the troll burped (but not with everything and not with the way it burped), I believe it helps to remember a fundamental rule of the netiquette.

[monraaf]

In Debian they did discuss about using Xfce as default desktop. The argument of gnome3 camp was that is has more developers. A good software do not need much maintenance, buggy and not ready one needs. Xfce is the default desktop in the CD rom version of Debian.
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd.../amd64/iso-cd/

In the Debian netinstaller you choose what desktops to install, so you can not say that gnome3 is the default desktop.

Bullshit!

The argument was that GNOME had higher popcon numbers because it was the default desktop, so an experiment was made by making XFCE the default desktop for a longer period (almost an entire development window). The results was that GNOME installs where not affected while XFCE installs did not increase. The conclusion was thus that Debian users are very aware of their choices and people where actively choosing GNOME. The default was thus reverted back to GNOME again to best serve the (majority of) users. (Later on the debian installer people changed the menu mostly obliverating the "default desktop".)

Greetings from an actual Debian Developer (and sorry for feeding "debianxfce", but some actual history might hopefully be useful to someone).

[timofonic]

Oh God, no. The apps decide for the apps. Why would you enforce controls and override the app designer's intentions? That is just a horrible way of locking down creativity and Freedom. And frankly also and excuse to not fix broken SSD WMs living in the 90s. Such technical debt should be flushed.

You can provide widgets, designs, HIGs and themes to guide the developers. No more.

The DE is the user's heaven. The user is God and configures the DE to how it wants it to be , the apps must obey the users' wishings.

Designers? No, they are programmers.

This is the same crap about "web design". They're just frustrated graphical designers that get a techie hipster attitude and learn some of programming but most of their projects are based on using others' code

Adapt to the user, no make it an "art" and oblige users to certain "User eXperiences".

• CSD sucks, CSS sucks, JavaScript sucks, Java sucks, web interoperability sucks, web accessibility sucks. Most apps sucks, websites sucks too. Hell, I would prefer to use a usenet-like news reader for forums and mailing lists instead crappy web interfaces and my mail accounts getting filled all time. I hate webapps with so much passion. I hate software like Gnome that seems a PITA to use unless you fill it with a shitload of addons.
• I hate Firefox not only because it's losing features and being more and more bloated each time with a team that only cares about "most users" in a very corporatism way, but it's becoming a bad copy of Google Chrome by using CSD crap.
• I hate there's repeating subsystems like GVFS+GIO vs IDK+KIO (what was FUSE for? Why not improving it for that and have a better user-space library/daemon?).
• I hate gconf, gsettings... that crap that aims to convert Linux into a Windows clone with a registry, instead an a lot more sane and inter-operable approach.
• I hate certain apps are GUI or console only, instead using a flexible approach using libyui or something similar (or improve libyui to even not use ncurses but a own implementation to write to console/terminal-emulator).
• I hate the terminal-emulators, there's need for a modern Wayland-like protocol that is fully network aware and with features such as those found in MOSH & tmate & tmux & gnu screen & reptyr.iTerm2 and Terminology has many interesting concepts and features that would be great to standarize in a protocol. I also liked the Notty concept).

I could write a 30 page post about things I hate in software. But I have other things to do

[leech]

In Debian they did discuss about using Xfce as default desktop. The argument of gnome3 camp was that is has more developers. A good software do not need much maintenance, buggy and not ready one needs. Xfce is the default desktop in the CD rom version of Debian.
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd.../amd64/iso-cd/

In the Debian netinstaller you choose what desktops to install, so you can not say that gnome3 is the default desktop.

Ha ha, for a second there I was like "holy crap, that's weird, why is it the only CD installer..." Then it dawned on me... CD... who the hell uses CDs to install these days? Gnome3 can't fit on a CD anymore, that's why. If you install from a DVD image, I'm sure it'll offer the same choice as the netinstall. I've been using the netinstall since... well literally since it was available. Yup, 3 days on an old modem to install the base Debian back then...

[leech]

Read the discussion again.



So you are one those who does not know what is good software for a distribution. Debian should drop all redhat shitty software: gnome3, pulseaudio, networkmanager and systemd. Using Firefox as default browser shows your zero knowledge of software quality too. Debian would be much better with chrome/chromium, wicd, qasmixer+alsa, and sysv-init as default.

I can agree with Monraaf here. While I'm not a Debian Developer, I had followed all of those discussions quite closely. Indeed they had swapped it to XFCE for a time, and people still installed Gnome instead. Why would you drop support for everything that is pretty much pushed via the INDUSTRY LEADER for Linux? RedHat is the most successful Linux based company out there...