Ubuntu Dock Now Present By Default In Ubuntu 17.10's GNOME Session

[kon14]

X and therefore the linux desktop as we know it is not secure, it hasn't been and it will never be. Everyone can read from anything and write anywhere. It is a huge security loophole and there's little to be done about it. This doesn't mean forcing a Wayland transition without important bits being standardized or even considered is a good way to go about solving this.

As long as programs can write anywhere without portals and sandboxing Wayland's compositor restrictions merely serve as an annoyance to the user and barely offer any significant security improvement over the current situation.

Jumping ship and rushing to Wayland without fixing any previous non-X related bugs that won't be redundant after the transition is a sad thing to do, but since there's no room for conversation here I won't elaborate any further.

[Gusar]

Kon14. Yeah that is a problem outside GNOME. Doing a Wayland compositor And integrate it to a DE is incredible hard. You get worse problems than you tried to solve.

Ah yes, your usual spin. Gnome devs are the greatestest, others aren't "worthy" of writing a Wayland compositor, because they are incapable without the greatestestness of Gnome devs...

But the actual situation isn't that others are incapable, it's that certain things simply aren't specified yet. In some cases because devs refuse to specify them, like SSD (cue predictable retort how SSDs are a thing of the past/unnecessary/some other fluff).

[kon14]

There are no alternative compositors simply because there is no standard one.

Unless you're selfish enough to expect everything to be done in your own self-proclaimed correct way there's no good reason to refuse negotiating with others around a standardized way to do things, which would ultimately decrease incompatibilities, duplication and confusion, and rush towards your own path doing anything in your own fashion, then expecting everyone else up the stack to either follow path or duplicate their work to support your method as well.

You should realize not everything resides in compositor land. User apps are going to have to work atop all of this confusion and believe it or not nobody is willing to reimplement stuff a trillion ways just so as to please the devs of a different project, nor are they going to only support Gnome. The most probable scenario is the one where lots of functionality of these utility apps gets dropped or is not implemented, effectively crippling our future desktops' capabilities because people decided to make Wayland land worse than X11's complexity.

I assume it's time for you to mention something like "so we agree Kon14, people should follow in the Standard Desktop's trail and quit duplicating effort", then I'm gonna cringe for a while for getting dragged into this again and will reply anew after I get triggered enough to do so.

[kon14]

Kon14. So what keeps the alternative compostitor developers away from the development? GNOME started years ago! Wayland works fine on GNOME tech.

Fixing important bugs before jumping on to the next hype train I'd assume?
That and other projects refusing to cooperate regarding standards among other things most likely.

There's also Nvidia refusing to support GBM and insisting on EGLstreams. Now we're awaiting a replacement for both gbm and streams.
Reminder: thanks for merging streams support and helping nvidia get away with their bs.

[Gusar]

If the alternative compositor developers are capable they should just implement whatever they need.

Because things need to be specified to allow interoperability between compositors. So that application developers don't need to write special code for each compositor they want their application to run on. Every compositor implementing the same thing in their own way leads nowhere.

So what keeps the alternative compostitor developers away from the development?

Specs! Or in certain cases the refusal to accept a spec.

You are incapable of recognizing that there is a world beyond your little Gnome bubble. Or you are capable but choose to remain ignorant. Which is even worse.

[duby229]

1) According to the Ubuntu developers the desktop team is kept about the size as in the Unity8 days. They just happened to switch technology and become much more productive.

2) GNOME is by far the most used desktop. And it happens to be default on all distributions that matters these days

2) is definitely wrong. Gnome is not the most used desktop these days, In fact it has less than a quarter of the raw number of users it had on gnome 2.

[onicsis]

In an ideal situation GNOME, will be rewritten in Vala, and Vala language will evolve from a C translator into a frontend compiler for LLVM to generate more efficient native code and for maximum flexibility. Also increase overall stability of Linux Desktop in generally and also easier to be adopted by newcomer from Windows world, having C# like clean syntax.

Anyway Vala languge

https://www.bassi.io/articles/2017/02/13/on-vala/

it's not dead, as someone once said,

[unixfan2001]

Yeah Pawlerson. We got the same results. Very few recent bug reports on memory leaks. Thanks for proving my point.

Oh and please keep up the good work on your circle jerk narrative. It is quite funny..

Not sure if trolling anymore or just braindead.

How the fuck are 14 major (and, as of yet, unresolved) memory leaks in production code "Very few recent bug reports on memory leaks"?
I discovered one in a codebase I'm working on today and that's already enough to make me want to hide in the woods out of shame.

Creating memory leaks is the worst thing a software engineer can ever do (unless your name is McAfee. McAfee software is worse than all memory leaks in every piece of software -- large and small -- on this planet combined).

[Charlie68]

Oh the old 'Linux is secure and stable' narrative. Haven't heard that in a decade. Here is a clue for you, it's neither secure or stable. Ego driven development will always add more unaudited code, more compromises, redundant or even conflicting design. Worst part you haven't even acknowledged the problem.

In a way you are also a victim and I feel sorry for you. kde failed to inform you about the severe security problems on X while individual kde developers do warn about it.

Do you want my help to dig out the warnings that kde failed to inform you?

As I have already written, I am aware of Xorg's security issues, but it seems she does not want to understand, but I'm not surprised. However I inform you that for days I'm using a Wayland session on Plasma 5 in Opensuse Tumbleweed and I have no big problems. This is to say that you often talk to a whore!

[danielnez1]

As expected no valid points raised why the alternative compositors still lack production quality.

Without GNOME there would not be any Wayland.

Define "production quality".