Debian Might Abandon Their Live Images

[linuxgeex]

This would be the most idiotic decision in the Linux history ever. Live images are tremendously useful, and not only for testing before installation, but also troubleshooting partitions and as portable systems. Instead, they should make even more straightforward to build customizable live images by the users, specially given the rich collection of packages available. I would like to build my own Debian live for scientific applications and technical writing, but I'm very discouraged by the amount of effort required, and by the way I did not find any easy to follow and self-contained guide to study on.

Yeah Debian experienced a large popularity shift towards them as a result of Knoppix, DSL, SimplyMepis in the early days of the LiveCD explosion that also turned Distrowatch into the place to go to try the latest thing. Then there was an introduction of Forensics/Hacking/Recovery LiveCD images. People started installing Debian from SimplyMepis and DSL instead of using the regular Debian installer because it was way way faster. (I could install a full Debian OS with nearly 2G of software in 7 minutes on an HDD from 52-spin CD) Then SuSE started releasing liveCDs that were superior to Knoppix because they were a proper try-before-installing version, but you couldn't install more software in live mode. Then Slax allowed installing almost anything live, then Ubuntu came along with a fully persistent liveUSB that you could apt-get install new apps into, while still being based around the compressed live ISO image so it was way way faster than installing to USB (I even installed the LiveUSB with persistence on some people's slow/small HDDs)

One of the key aspects of the early (6.x) SuSE install CDs was that you could use the CD installer environment to boot or chroot into your installation and fix it if you somehow borked it (running VMWare on the host, passing /dev/hda as to the guest to boot the Windows partition, mistakenly booting the SuSE partition, oh hell!)

If Debian gets rid of the Live installer images then we basically kiss that very usable recovery environment where we can play a game of NeverPutt while we wait partimage to back up media before performing tricky LUKS-Crypt volume resizing with GParted... lol.

[linuxgeex]

This would be the most idiotic decision in the Linux history ever. Live images are tremendously useful, and not only for testing before installation, but also troubleshooting partitions and as portable systems. Instead, they should make even more straightforward to build customizable live images by the users, specially given the rich collection of packages available. I would like to build my own Debian live for scientific applications and technical writing, but I'm very discouraged by the amount of effort required, and by the way I did not find any easy to follow and self-contained guide to study on.

I've had some success in the past using mkisofs against /, booting into a debian installer, then loop mounting and chrooting the iso, mounting unionfs over /home with a loop mounted persistence file, then systemctl start lightdm.service . That gets you something that feels pretty damn similar to your normal boot, with the flexibility to keep or discard changes you make in your home folder, but you can't install new software. I haven't tried mounting a union over / but that's cuz I never wanted to change the base system when I was running it.

Today the easy way is to use systemd's mkosi to make bootable images of debian / ubuntu / redhat / centos / suse / mageia / arch distros.

Bear in mind that these won't boot on older hardware which only support the MBR/disklabel boot/partition scheme.

For Debian there's DebianCustomCD if you want to make a more compatible one and want to learn a lot more about how its done.

[GdeR]

I've had some success in the past using mkisofs against /, booting into a debian installer, then loop mounting and chrooting the iso, mounting unionfs over /home with a loop mounted persistence file, then systemctl start lightdm.service . That gets you something that feels pretty damn similar to your normal boot, with the flexibility to keep or discard changes you make in your home folder, but you can't install new software. I haven't tried mounting a union over / but that's cuz I never wanted to change the base system when I was running it.

Today the easy way is to use systemd's mkosi to make bootable images of debian / ubuntu / redhat / centos / suse / mageia / arch distros.

Bear in mind that these won't boot on older hardware which only support the MBR/disklabel boot/partition scheme.

For Debian there's DebianCustomCD if you want to make a more compatible one and want to learn a lot more about how its done.

Excellent. Thank you very much.

[GreatEmerald]

This would be the most idiotic decision in the Linux history ever. Live images are tremendously useful, and not only for testing before installation, but also troubleshooting partitions and as portable systems. Instead, they should make even more straightforward to build customizable live images by the users, specially given the rich collection of packages available. I would like to build my own Debian live for scientific applications and technical writing, but I'm very discouraged by the amount of effort required, and by the way I did not find any easy to follow and self-contained guide to study on.

SUSE Studio made that process extremely easy (pick a base, click on packages you want to add, select the output type, wait for it to build, log in via testdrive to check if it all works, download image, enjoy). Unfortunately it's not really maintained any more. Supposedly OBS now includes that functionality, but it doesn't seem to have any useful base images...

[mulenmar]

Yes, to check hardware compatibility and avoid discovering after an upgrade that the new version is borked on my computer!

Same, except that doesn't always help.

Example: A month or so ago I bought an HP Envy laptop from a few years ago, model m6-p114dx. It (usually) would boot from a flashdrive with the latest Linux Mint KDE Live, if I selected the compatibility mode, but would not when installed to the drive. Using the identical bootargs did not help.

That was an awfully-problematic laptop, overall. Ended up having to order the restoration media and reinstall Windows 10, since even Win7 + drivers for IDENTICAL hardware couldn't get the networking functioning. Needless to say, it's getting resold -- no way in hell am I using that privacy invasion vector, even to run a fullscreen VM. I chose it because it used one of the last and most powerful AMD APU from before they added the PSP, the FX-8800p...I didn't find the three forum posts about it not working right until AFTER I clicked the Buy It Now link, unfortunately.

[starshipeleven]

They don't. Why should they? Users here are neither dumb nor malicious.

Please tell me where is this mythical place where university students (or people in general) aren't dumb nor malicious.

Also where there is no malware.

[starshipeleven]

I'm glad they do, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to do what I'm doing. (Mind you, they don't give administrator privileges on said Windows 7... whereas I can use GPartEd on it if I want.)

FYI if they don't block boot AND the partition on it is unencrypted (and it is because otherwise you wouldn't be able to resize it with gparted), then anyone that can google can just use a bootable cd with a user editor tool to enable Admin account and then do whatever.
For example by using a Sergei Strelec WinPE liveCD (that has a buttload of tools, among which there are some of such programs).

[GI_Jack]

It's not Debian but I regularly use a bootable Arch Linux USB stick for doing things like out of band system maintenance and it's been extremely useful in booting up ancient computers and wiping their drives prior to recycling.

One use for the bootable image is certainly as a springboard for installation, but there are plenty of uses for them even if you never intend to install the OS on the machine.

https://ninjaos.org

[GreatEmerald]

Please tell me where is this mythical place where university students (or people in general) aren't dumb nor malicious.

Also where there is no malware.

A place where you need to use the computers for finishing assignments in time instead of hacking them? There is also no point in hacking them, either, you would just get in trouble, that's all. And guess what, students are smart enough to not install malware, too (they don't install anything to begin with since you need admin rights to do that; only portable stuff can be used).

[linuxgeex]

Please tell me where is this mythical place where university students (or people in general) aren't dumb nor malicious.

Also where there is no malware.

That place exists in the mind of the person who just lost all their data to the actions of someone they least suspected, lol, shortly before they learned not to be such a dumb pollyanna, lol.