Libertine: Allowing X11 Debian Packages To Run On The Next-Gen Ubuntu Desktop

[dh04000]

So the actual state of the situation is: all the work to unify the experience will be done by those toolkits.
And at a lower level the toolkit uses the Mir/Wayland server, itself linked to the video drivers that need to be compatible. Right?

(multiple compositor is new to me, just trying to get clear info instead of "mir sux ubuntu shit nvidia fuck" )

You are right. In fact, only a bad developer (or a special case, like screen recording software) will develop Wayland only applications. We have that legacy issue today with people designing X11 only applications and its madness. Target qt, or gtk, or sdl, or insert-toolkit-here, and gain X11, Wayland, Mir, and future proofing at the same time. Also, portability to Windows, Andriod, MacOS, ect is a nice benefit to targeting real toolkits.

[bkor]

A lot of people did not grow up with Microsoft Windows as their only model of how computers must work. A browser is not logically a part of your operating system, it's just a program some people use to consume product from the World Wide Web.

That's a nice marketing answer. I'll phrase it differently then: Is the webbrowser really not part of your "next-gen converged desktop"? You'll deliver a desktop whereby the webbrowser is running in some legacy environment?!?

[bregma]

So the actual state of the situation is: all the work to unify the experience will be done by those toolkits.
And at a lower level the toolkit uses the Mir/Wayland server, itself linked to the video drivers that need to be compatible. Right?

That's exactly it.

There's still a lot of software out there that equates Linux and X11 though, so there's going to be a loooong transition.

[Passso]

Wayland-only apps are never going to run on Mir, or X11, or anywhere else.

The smart developer will use a toolkit to hide what compositor their host operating system is using. Qt, GTK+, libSDL, and a host of other toolkits let you make platform-independent software that will run pretty much anywhere. Why would you want to target only a single compositor?

So the actual state of the situation is: all the work to unify the experience will be done by those toolkits.
And at a lower level the toolkit uses the Mir/Wayland server, itself linked to the video drivers that need to be compatible. Right?

(multiple compositor is new to me, just trying to get clear info instead of "mir sux ubuntu shit nvidia fuck" )

[Passso]

A lot of people did not grow up with Microsoft Windows as their only model of how computers must work. A browser is not logically a part of your operating system, it's just a program some people use to consume product from the World Wide Web.

A long time ago a company lied about this assuming the brother in the OS was "impossible to remove like plastic in a car".

Ironically this "must-have legendary monopolistic" browser is now dead. Champagne!

[bregma]

That is a good idea for legacy apps the day Mir launch.
But what about Wayland specific apps? Do they run natively on Mir?

Wayland-only apps are never going to run on Mir, or X11, or anywhere else.

The smart developer will use a toolkit to hide what compositor their host operating system is using. Qt, GTK+, libSDL, and a host of other toolkits let you make platform-independent software that will run pretty much anywhere. Why would you want to target only a single compositor?

[dh04000]

A lot of people did not grow up with Microsoft Windows as their only model of how computers must work. A browser is not logically a part of your operating system, it's just a program some people use to consume product from the World Wide Web.

Yeah, I agree. Browsers and other "internet-touching" applications need to be separate and free to be updated regularly for security reasons.

[bregma]

A webbrowser not really part of your operating system seems a bit odd.

A lot of people did not grow up with Microsoft Windows as their only model of how computers must work. A browser is not logically a part of your operating system, it's just a program some people use to consume product from the World Wide Web.

[Veto]

AFAIC debs/rpms are still the best solution for distro packages whereas Snaps and Flatpaks are a fine solution for 3rd party, cross-distro packages.

Why is it they are so obsessed with using the same <driving tool> for all <fasteners>???

[Cerberus]

Snap does not have the benefit of runtimes. However, the wasted size is not in the gigabyte. That was just the Snap Libreoffice having debug information as well. This was intentionally done to help QA. Flatpak is still way better due to having and encouraging runtimes, by default support for additional data (debug info and so on), NO restrictive CLA which unlike any other CLA gives unique advantage to Canonical over any other contributor, NO requirement to use a proprietary 'store', etc.

http://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/06/2...wn-snap-store/

Snaps dont need a proprietary store, you can create your own.

Snapd has also been adopted in main Arch repository and Fedora COPR repository.

Libertine is also coming to Ubuntu phones, that will enable users to run X applications on the phone, I am looking forward to that