Libertine: Allowing X11 Debian Packages To Run On The Next-Gen Ubuntu Desktop

[bregma]

A webbrowser not really part of your operating system seems a bit odd.

A lot of people did not grow up with Microsoft Windows as their only model of how computers must work. A browser is not logically a part of your operating system, it's just a program some people use to consume product from the World Wide Web.

[dh04000]

A lot of people did not grow up with Microsoft Windows as their only model of how computers must work. A browser is not logically a part of your operating system, it's just a program some people use to consume product from the World Wide Web.

Yeah, I agree. Browsers and other "internet-touching" applications need to be separate and free to be updated regularly for security reasons.

[bregma]

That is a good idea for legacy apps the day Mir launch.
But what about Wayland specific apps? Do they run natively on Mir?

Wayland-only apps are never going to run on Mir, or X11, or anywhere else.

The smart developer will use a toolkit to hide what compositor their host operating system is using. Qt, GTK+, libSDL, and a host of other toolkits let you make platform-independent software that will run pretty much anywhere. Why would you want to target only a single compositor?

[Passso]

A lot of people did not grow up with Microsoft Windows as their only model of how computers must work. A browser is not logically a part of your operating system, it's just a program some people use to consume product from the World Wide Web.

A long time ago a company lied about this assuming the brother in the OS was "impossible to remove like plastic in a car".

Ironically this "must-have legendary monopolistic" browser is now dead. Champagne!

[Passso]

Wayland-only apps are never going to run on Mir, or X11, or anywhere else.

The smart developer will use a toolkit to hide what compositor their host operating system is using. Qt, GTK+, libSDL, and a host of other toolkits let you make platform-independent software that will run pretty much anywhere. Why would you want to target only a single compositor?

So the actual state of the situation is: all the work to unify the experience will be done by those toolkits.
And at a lower level the toolkit uses the Mir/Wayland server, itself linked to the video drivers that need to be compatible. Right?

(multiple compositor is new to me, just trying to get clear info instead of "mir sux ubuntu shit nvidia fuck" )

[bregma]

So the actual state of the situation is: all the work to unify the experience will be done by those toolkits.
And at a lower level the toolkit uses the Mir/Wayland server, itself linked to the video drivers that need to be compatible. Right?

That's exactly it.

There's still a lot of software out there that equates Linux and X11 though, so there's going to be a loooong transition.

[bkor]

A lot of people did not grow up with Microsoft Windows as their only model of how computers must work. A browser is not logically a part of your operating system, it's just a program some people use to consume product from the World Wide Web.

That's a nice marketing answer. I'll phrase it differently then: Is the webbrowser really not part of your "next-gen converged desktop"? You'll deliver a desktop whereby the webbrowser is running in some legacy environment?!?

[dh04000]

So the actual state of the situation is: all the work to unify the experience will be done by those toolkits.
And at a lower level the toolkit uses the Mir/Wayland server, itself linked to the video drivers that need to be compatible. Right?

(multiple compositor is new to me, just trying to get clear info instead of "mir sux ubuntu shit nvidia fuck" )

You are right. In fact, only a bad developer (or a special case, like screen recording software) will develop Wayland only applications. We have that legacy issue today with people designing X11 only applications and its madness. Target qt, or gtk, or sdl, or insert-toolkit-here, and gain X11, Wayland, Mir, and future proofing at the same time. Also, portability to Windows, Andriod, MacOS, ect is a nice benefit to targeting real toolkits.

[bkor]

So the actual state of the situation is: all the work to unify the experience will be done by those toolkits.

That's only partially the answer. Any software can also directly call X11. Various of the bigger software bits do this. E.g. LibreOffice, Firefox. Saying it is all handled at the toolkit level is ignoring the amount of work needed by various application developers.

[timtas]

Wayland-only apps are never going to run on Mir, or X11, or anywhere else.

The smart developer will use a toolkit to hide what compositor their host operating system is using. Qt, GTK+, libSDL, and a host of other toolkits let you make platform-independent software that will run pretty much anywhere. Why would you want to target only a single compositor?

Take GTK+ out of that list, they explicitely decided to drop windows and osx support, as they are in their own words only concerned about the Gnome Desktop.